For our members in PC repair services...

[KaeZoo]

...Just wondered what you though about this legislation being considered now.

[Dreamstalker]

I'm not sure about this one. My concern would be for the freelance techs, as it could be easy for suspects to figure out who turned them in (Joe Prondirector gets a call from the cops a day after Techie worked on his computer...according to Joe, the last person who touched the computer is the rat).

It also (IMO) gets into the arena of digital stuff...if there's no real child, can it be considered child endangerment? (manga and hentai artists tend to draw females as looking much younger, and I don't think I need mention sim programs, Photoshop et al--it can exist on paper or pixels but not IRL at all)

[Boozy]

It also (IMO) gets into the arena of digital stuff...if there's no real child, can it be considered child endangerment?

That's up to the police to decide according to state law, not up to a computer tech.

[Banrion]

So does that mean then, if these bills pass, that instead of just repairing a reported problem on a computer, the technicians are required to scour for kiddy porn? If they don't then there is the possibility that a week later, the cops catch someone downloading, then find older stuff, then find out the comp was in for repair, and slap a fine on the tech because the stuff was there, but not reported.

If I was a tech and these bills passed, it would be new SOP to wipe all storage devices because I would want to make sure that something hidden wouldn't come back to bite me.

It makes sense for doctors and teachers, because the interact with the actual child, and would have occasion to see actual physical evidence of abuse, or hear about straight from the child. Computer techs don't. I don't work on computers professionally, but I do help out my friends, and rarely would I be anywhere near where they would store pics or videos.

It's an undue burden on the profession, a 5 min settings change will now take DAYS for a tech to go through every file on a 500GB HD just so they can cover their own back. Not all criminals are completely oblivious. I highly doubt that most of these people are actually dumb enough to label the files "12 YO Naked"

[Dreamstalker]

That's up to the police to decide according to state law, not up to a computer tech.

Which is where it gets tricky. AFAIK, that hasn't been decided solidly yet (I could be wrong, but last I recall reading on the subject it was still in debate).

So does that mean then, if these bills pass, that instead of just repairing a reported problem on a computer, the technicians are required to scour for kiddy porn? If they don't then there is the possibility that a week later, the cops catch someone downloading, then find older stuff, then find out the comp was in for repair, and slap a fine on the tech because the stuff was there, but not reported.

Exactly. Not everyone knows how to tell when a file was written to the drive, all they care about is that it's there.

If I was a tech and these bills passed, it would be new SOP to wipe all storage devices because I would want to make sure that something hidden wouldn't come back to bite me.

Oh, I can imagine the fun...customers scream enough now if any data is missing due to their failure to back anything up. My clients know enough to do it because they are among the few that listen and trust what I say to do (or not do).

It's an undue burden on the profession, a 5 min settings change will now take DAYS for a tech to go through every file on a 500GB HD just so they can cover their own back. Not all criminals are completely oblivious. I highly doubt that most of these people are actually dumb enough to label the files "12 YO Naked"

That would be correct. Steganography, to name one tool to hide things. That takes a fair amount of time, skill and specialized programs to uncover (that's the case with most any encryption technique).

[Kara]

I can see the point of the legislation, but it depends on what can be considered as "child pornography." Granted, I am completely against the sick images they would be looking for, but sometimes people can get a little carried away and innocent people get caught up in these things. Case in point, I have tons and tons of pictures of my godchildren on my PC. A few pics are of them nude (like first bath pictures, and doing cute things in the tub a little older, we're talking 1-2 years). The reason they are on my hard drive instead of on film is because I recall a few years back where a woman had similar pictures of her own children and took the film to be developed. A tech in the photo lab decided the images were inappropriate and called the police, and she wound up getting arrested and had her children taken from her.

[Dreamstalker]

Yeah, a family friend has literally thousands of baby pics on her computer (and is probably amassing more by the day). That's where the interpretation can get a bit fuzzy...if one tech sees nekkid baby pics (as all parents have a right to have) and thinks "oh noes! Child pr0n call the police!", then what happens?

Ideally there needs to be a much clearer, stricter definition of child pr0n before this goes into effect, methinks (what that definition is, I don't know, but something better than "this looks like it").

Also as stated upthread, it's an undue burden on the tech. What now takes minutes or hours to fix could take weeks as every file on the drive is examined, and the tools to break various forms of encryption would be expensive.

(also, couldn't the tech breaking encryption to examine files be counted as computer trespass?)

[KaeZoo]

Yeah, a family friend has literally thousands of baby pics on her computer (and is probably amassing more by the day). That's where the interpretation can get a bit fuzzy...if one tech sees nekkid baby pics (as all parents have a right to have) and thinks "oh noes! Child pr0n call the police!", then what happens?

Really Bad Things.

The proposed new laws set fines and/or jail time for computer techs who find evidence of child abuse and don't report it. So if there's any question about whether a certain picture is completely innocent or pornography, then the tech has to err on the side of making a report. Also, unlike the family doctor or day care provider, a computer tech is likely to be completely ignorant of the family dynamics and history.

Also, it's possible for someone to have illegal or pornographic material on his/her computer and not be aware of it.

[Cia]

I have naked pics of my daughter but I use them to record her allergic reactions and the chicken pox since she had it three times.

Some people will see child pr0n no matter how innocent the pic.

[Dreamstalker]

Exactly. And yes there are dialers of the sort out there, but I feel that it is the computer owner's responsibility to run full system scans every so often. Yes, someone else installs the stuff, but you need to keep it updated. Else i will slap a hefty id10t tax on you.

So if a tech finds child pr0n on a machine that was clearly put there by some crudware that the user had no knowledge of, would they still be "obligated" to report it? Having some idea of how well the legal system understands things computer-related...