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**Canarr** · 12-02-2009, 01:15 PM

Um... okay...

I gotta say: apart from the one with the checkout lines - which, as you correctly point out, is often due to budgetary restrictions - I'd sign off on every single one of her points. Matter of fact, several of those - policies forcing employees to push warranties or credit cards on their customers - have been lamented on this site time and again.

She even acknowledges that it's not the employees' fault; it's not like she suggests screaming at the cashier to avoid upselling, just that customers stick to their budgets. I can't find fault with that.

**Irving Patrick Freleigh** · 12-02-2009, 03:00 PM

Yeah, I don't think this article is quite so bad either.

She's not recommending you scream at the peons; she prefers getting managers involved. And that's what they're there for.

And pushing extended warranties, credit cards, and upselling is sleazy anyway, and not something I like to experience when shopping.

**mikoyan29** · 12-02-2009, 03:09 PM

I concur with the other folks. The only thing that I really have a problem is yelling at the manager for not having enough lines. Chances are, his hands are tied as well.

**rageaholic** · 12-02-2009, 03:38 PM

You know, I think she's right on many of these. Then again, I never worked in retail either, so I guess I am more of a customer. My replies in bold

"-- Stores that don't open all of the checkout lanes. With unemployment at double digits, why can't stores hire enough cashiers to staff the registers, at least during busy times? At any rate, when I'm in a store and this happens, I search for a store manager and complain about the lack of cashiers. About 50 percent of the time, the manager opens up a lane or two."

It would be nice if they would hire more people. With so many people looking for jobs (like me), perhaps that would be an incentive to start hiring. Plus, I've heard many stories of overwhelmed cashiers dealing with long lines. Yeah, I don't know their budget, but I hate how stores are always looking to screw over the employees (humans) to cut costs.

"-- Fake sales. This so steams me. Again, be aggressive. If you have proof that an item is selling for its normal retail price when it's supposed to be on sale, point it out to a manager and negotiate for a price reduction. If you don't get satisfaction from the store manager, write to the company headquarters and complain about the deception. You should also report the incident to the Federal Trade Commission, the nation's consumer protection agency. To file a complaint go to http://www.ftc.gov or call toll-free, (877) 382-4357. Take a look at the FTC's pricing guidelines at http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/guides/decptprc.htm."

This one I'm torn on. What could be fake sales to one person could be just not understanding the fine print. On the other hand, those deceptive practices are pretty sucky on the companies part. It really depends on the situation.

"-- Coupons that exclude almost everything in the store. There is not much you can do about this particularly aggravating practice. However, if you find the exclusions are a regular thing, point it out to the manager before taking your business elsewhere. "

No comment on this one either. It's sucky, but it depends on the circumstance. Maybe they are out of the stuff that is on sale.

"-- Being pestered with an extended warranty sales pitch. "No" is a powerful word. On the occasions I've been pitched, I've found that a firm "no," along with that look your mama gave you when she wanted to stop you in your tracks, ends the hounding."

I HATE THIS!! I don't mind being asked, but it should stop at NO. No more asking afterwards. I personally find warranties a waste of money unless it comes with the package.

"-- In-store prices that do not match the same company's online prices. If you want to take advantage of the online price but avoid shipping fees, many retailers allow in-store pickups for Internet purchases."

I don't understand this because I never buy stuff online, but I would think buying stuff online would be even more expensive than in store thanks to shipping and handling. I'm surprised it's cheaper online.

"-- Employees up-selling at checkout. Up-selling is when they try to get you to buy more stuff. If you go to a store with a list and a vow to stick to it, you can resist this sales tactic. Be strong. Remember your budget."

PERFECT advice there. It's simplying saying not to be suckered into buying more than you need. Why should you? No one should force you to buy something you don't want. What's wrong with sticking to your budget?

"-- Pushing a store credit card. On this one you definitely need to be strong. In this economy, the typical 10 percent discount offered when opening an account can be a big temptation. Resist. Applying for the card will trigger an inquiry to a credit bureau, and that in turn will lower your credit score. So it's important you limit the opening of new credit in order to optimize your all-important credit score. High credit scores often translate into better rates on the money you borrow."

Another thing that pissed me off. Even if it's a free rewards card, I'm not interested. I DON'T want to be bothered because I rarely buy stuff from those placed anyway. Also, I try to avoid credit cards and usually carry cash. Like I said above, I shouldn't have to buy or sign up for something I'm not interested in. Once I say no, that should be final.

"-- Mail-in rebates. It's so frustrating to get excited about an item on sale only to realize that the discount is tied to a rebate. Since this sales strategy isn't likely to go away, don't procrastinate. As soon as you get home from the store, mail in the rebate. "

Even though I rarely shop, from what I know, rebates suck. They count on you forgetting about them so they can advertise a discount and get full price. Pretty crafty technique though, relying on forgetful customers. Also, I hear it takes weeks to months to get your rebate back. That's kind of useless.

"-- Store personnel checking your receipt as you exit the store. I hate this practice. It just makes you feel like you're a thief, and so soon after you've paid for your goods. Still, I understand the reasons for the practice and why only 26 percent of those polled were bothered by it. The retail industry will lose an estimated $2.7 billion in fraudulent returns this holiday season and an estimated $9.6 billion this year, according to the National Retail Federation. Ninety-three percent of retailers said stolen merchandise has been returned to their stores in the past year, up from 88.9 percent in 2008."

Never had this happened but I heard of it. It's one of those things I can see both sides to.

It's not like she's advocating complaining till you get a discount or something for free, it's not like she's telling you to give a cashier a hard time, she's just offering advice on how to deal with pushy sales people and some advice to corporate about what aggrevates customers. If anything, she's helping them by offering her feedback and providing data. I see nothing wrong with her artical.

**~~ditchdj~~** · 12-02-2009, 10:35 PM

I dont see anything wrong with customers giving managers some constructive feedback. Given, it's not peppered with f-words and screamed out like a Drill Instructor.

**~~PepperElf~~** · 12-03-2009, 12:41 AM

i dunno about that writer. there's a lot i actually disagree with her on...

1) Stores that don't open all of the checkout lanes.
How do you think the store kept the prices down with rising costs?

2) Fake sales
This just makes me think of people crying "bait and switch" over every thing they see

3) Coupons that exclude almost everything in the store.
Perception perception perception. I think what she really meant was "It didn't cover what I wanted it to"

4) Being pestered with an extended warranty sales pitch.
Employees up-selling at checkout.
Pushing a store credit card.
Stop blaming the cashier. They get in trouble if they don't ask.

5) In-store prices that do not match the same company's online prices
Then order online. Besides the online price is usually lower to cover the s/h

6) Mail-in rebates.
That's usually the manufacture's doing not the store's. And yeah people are lazy. You flip the abacus.

7) Store personnel checking your receipt as you exit the store.
What, they're drawing blood? Demanding your first born?
It's just a bloody receipt. Unless you have something to hide.

and...

I live in Virginia Beach

Hi there. I use to live there too. (within a mile of Little Creek base)

**BookstoreEscapee** · 12-03-2009, 02:10 AM

I don't understand this because I never buy stuff online, but I would think buying stuff online would be even more expensive than in store thanks to shipping and handling. I'm surprised it's cheaper online.

In some cases, the website is a separate division of the company, with its own budget, so they are not paying the overhead of keeping the stores running. Their biggest expense is the warehouse, so they can afford to give bigger discounts.

**Phantomgrift** · 12-03-2009, 02:15 AM

PepperElf hit upon a lot of what bothered me with the womans article.
One, I've read some of her other stuff and it all has a very me-centric vibe about it.

And two... Well, like PepperElf said, the idea that you can get after someone in the store over the listed "peeves" bothers me on so many levels.
Lets see:

1) Stores that don't open all of the checkout lanes.
Every place I've ever worked that had this happen usually had to balance manning, hours, schedules, pay and profit. Filling up every single checkout line is not going to help if your store or place of business doesnt pull in enough cash to warrant a viable profit off of it.

2) Fake sales
"bait and switch" indeed. A lot of that is drive by either company policy or something specific to the area. And honestly, the sale is never "fake". If customers would remember Math Basics 101 and actually figured out pricing, they'd realize that most deals/sales are honestly going to save them a bit of money. I came from a family of seven... When it came to shopping for ourselves, the little sale items were actually very cost-effective.
People like the author get pissed because their idea of a sale is "Single Item Name-Brand 75% Off!" and that kind of shit only occurs once in a great blue moon.

3) Coupons that exclude almost everything in the store.
Again, the difference between a large family or a small one and factors like name brand or generic factor in a lot here. Take me for example, I'm in the Navy. Our Navy Exchange, much like Wally World or Target or the like, have their own generic brand of big-name items.
Comparing ingredients on say "Vivarin" vs. "Stay Alert Tablets" (I work numerous odd and late hours) shows that there is no difference. But the NEX brand is always two dollars cheaper than the name brand. And a lot of times, I'll find coupons for the store-brand stuff.
In most of the incidents I've seen, just like with the "fake sales", people wont the coupon to be for the biggest, shiniest, Name-Brandiest, Brand-Name item they can get away with.
When it doesnt apply, they get pissed, even though similar items will serve the purpose just as well, if not better than the name brand.

4) Check-Out Aisle:
- Being pestered with an extended warranty sales pitch.
- Employees up-selling at checkout.
- Pushing a store credit card.

Complaining to a manager wont do shit on this. Company policy is far beyond what each store dictates and that's where nonsense like this comes from.
Hell, remember "Secret Shoppers" and their ilk. When I worked for Subway, we'd get docked on inspection if someone didnt say "WELCOME TO SUBWAY" the moment the doorbell went off.
This was fine when it was a trickle of people. This got to be retarded when there was a lunch-rush line out the door.
Hell, I've been stuck at NAS Oceana naval base for the last seven years. Lived in the barracks for four. Our gate guards are, by order of the base commander, required to say "Welcome To Oceana!"
I hate that. Hated it since they started it.
I can't get after the gate guards about it though. That order came from far above our pay-grade and there is jack-all we can do about it. Same thing applies in this case.

5) In-store prices that do not match the same company's online prices
I've rarely seen this one. And when I do, the item in question usually has a shipping/handling fee that brings the price up to about the same cost as in-store.
Again, only sending messages to the company office will actually net you any sort of result.

6) Mail-in rebates.
Mail-In rebates are actually quite awesome and can save you a ton of cash.
Oh wait? What's that you say? You have no time or desire to slap a stamp on an envolope and shove something in the mail-box? Than quite frankly, you're either going to be dead of stress before your retire, or odds are... Yer just a lazy moron.

7) Store personnel checking your receipt as you exit the store.
This one will never bother me until that magic fantasy time arrives where people no longer feel the need to take things without paying for it, switching out sale-tags on higher-priced items, etc.
Until then, big hairy deal.
Hell, I have to show a guy my ID card every stupid day I go to work.
It doesnt hurt me or my ego.

So yeah.
Ultimately, articles like hers just bother me to no end because they lend this idea that if everyone acts like enough of a pushy chump, you can get whatever the hell you want out of life because you are somehow entitled to it.

I guess in the end, the line of thinking promoted here also annoys me because I've worked in retail.
I never had much in the way of "horror stories", but rampant stupidity was universal.
Greyhound Bus Lines and the Electronics Only Video Store come to mind for me.

**~~PepperElf~~** · 12-03-2009, 02:33 AM

oy no wonder we think alike.
Former ET2 here =)

tho you gotta be careful with the NEX. sometimes they try to tell you "no" even when the flyer or coupon is accurate. One of my coworkers in yokosuka had that happen to him. The flyer read one price for a USB drive and the nex computer rang it up at the non-sale price. They tried to tell him "no", even though it was the exact item (even the barcodes matched). He had to get 3 managers to verify the flyer & matching barcode before they gave him the discount.

**Anthony K. S.** · 12-03-2009, 05:24 AM

With unemployment at double digits, why can't stores hire enough cashiers to staff the registers, at least during busy times?

Since when does the amount of staffing in a retail store have anything to do with the number of available people who need jobs?

In my experience, the number of applicants looking for work has almost always been greater than the number of jobs available.

Being short-staffed is the norm in retail, and that's because stores can only afford to allocate so much money to payroll before they have to start raising prices.

And if stores did start raising prices in order to pay for more employees . . . Who wants to bet that this columnist would complain, probably loudly, about that, too?

Having more applicants for work only means that you have more choices are who you hire . . . It doesn't give you the ability to hire more people.

Also, I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around the fact this woman mentioned the fact that unemployment is at double digits and then asked why retail stores can't hire more employees.

Think about it, lady.

Why do you think that unemployment is at double digits? Because companies aren't making enough money and are laying people off.

Doesn't that kind of answer your question about why businesses aren't hiring more people?

I search for a store manager and complain about the lack of cashiers. About 50 percent of the time, the manager opens up a lane or two.

And just where do you think that those extra cashiers came from?

The magical Cashier-Making Machine that's located in the mystical land known as The Back, perhaps?

No. They were pulled off of the sales floor, which, by the way, was also short-staffed and is now even more so, thanks to you.

There is no question in my mind that this columnist, who clearly sees nothing wrong with pulling employees off the floor to run extra registers, would get thoroughly steamed if she was waiting in line at the Information Desk and saw a couple of the employees at the desk being pulled away to run the registers.

Coupons that exclude almost everything in the store.

Maybe it's just me, but . . . I cannot recall ever seeing a coupon that excluded "almost everything in the store," either as a retail employee or as a customer.

What I have seen is coupons that excluded most or all of the items that a particular customer happened to want to buy.

For example :

One very common type of coupon that I've seen is a "15% Off" or "20% Off" coupon that does not combine with any other in-store discounts offered.

Now, if you happen to have such a coupon, and all of the items that you're interested in buying are already marked 20% or more off . . . Then you can't use the coupon.

Well, that's life, folks.

It doesn't mean that the coupon "excluded almost everything in the store" . . . It means that it excluded what that particular customer happened to want to buy on that particular day.

I strongly suspect that most or all of the customers who participated in that Consumer Reports survey, as well as the columnist herself, are not making this distinction.

It's my guess that they had a coupon, found that it didn't apply to the few particular items they wanted, and immediately started complaining about how the coupon "excluded almost everything in the store."

On the occasions I've been pitched, I've found that a firm "no," along with that look your mama gave you when she wanted to stop you in your tracks, ends the hounding.

Some posters on this thread have stated that the columnist did not encourage her readers to take their frustrations out on the cashiers or other front-line employees.

Now, to some extent, that's true, but . . . This is just my opinion, but I would say that giving cashiers a glare, like they're doing something wrong when they're only doing what they're required to do, does, indeed, constitute taking your frustrations out on the cashier.

It's only a matter of degree. It's not nearly as bad as screaming at a cashier, of course, but it's also not the same as acknowledging that the cashier is only doing his/her job.

That's just how I look at it.

In-store prices that do not match the same company's online prices.

This is the part where I literally said, "This woman is a complete idiot."

Online prices are often lower than in-store prices because the operating expenses for a warehouse plus a website are lower than the expenses for a warehouse plus several retail stores (which have a computer system that includes an online component of its own).

Since their expenses are lower, they can afford to charge lower prices.

And, as BookstoreEscapee pointed out, the online and in-store operations of a company are sometimes separate divisions, each with its own budget.

What part of this is so difficult for this woman to understand?

Now, I'm sure many of you would say, "Well, that's not exactly common knowledge, is it? You can't expect everybody to know all of that stuff. You shouldn't call her an idiot just because she didn't know all of those details about how companies operate."

Well, you are partly right.

I would not expect every person to know the specific reasons why online prices are often lower than in-store prices.

. . . But would I expect a person who makes her career as a financial columnist to know it? Yes, I would.

This, by the way, is one of my pet peeves - Customers who, when they hear the price of an item, look surprised and angered and say, "But your website said it was blarg blarg blarg" . . . completely ignoring the fact that the website clearly stated that it was "Online Price."

These are probably the same people who come to our store expecting to buy a particular item, and when they're told that we're sold out, they immediately complain, "But your website said that you had it!"

Totally ignoring the fact that the website stated, in big block letters, "Inventory changes frequently - Call store to confirm availability and pricing."

On the whole, this column seemed to me to be one of those "I want to have my cake and eat it, too" sort of rants.

She complains about the pushy and aggressive ways that retail stores try to increase their sales . . . but she also complains about the fact that they don't hire enough employees or provide enough service.

Well, you can't have it both ways. When you restrict the ways that a retail store can increase their income, you also restrict their ability to allocate more money to expenses like payroll.

Sometimes, you just have to pick what annoys you the least and go with that.

**rageaholic** · 12-03-2009, 03:51 PM

"Some posters on this thread have stated that the columnist did not encourage her readers to take their frustrations out on the cashiers or other front-line employees.

Now, to some extent, that's true, but . . . This is just my opinion, but I would say that giving cashiers a glare, like they're doing something wrong when they're only doing what they're required to do, does, indeed, constitute taking your frustrations out on the cashier.

It's only a matter of degree. It's not nearly as bad as screaming at a cashier, of course, but it's also not the same as acknowledging that the cashier is only doing his/her job.

That's just how I look at it."

That would be the one area where I would be tempted to be an SC. If they ask once, I would just say no thanks, but after that, I would become more firm in my approach. I do not like being harassed into buying something, or signing up for something. Most salespeople are willing to take no for an answer, but when they keep trying to explain the benefits after I had already said no, I get so annoyed.

Just because it's part of their job, doesn't mean I should be nice about it. I won't be an ass, but I won't be all cheery about it either.

**CaroPhoenix** · 12-03-2009, 04:18 PM

The coupons that exclude "almost everything in the store", I think she's talking about Bed, Bath & Beyond.

If you read the coupon's fine print off the bottom, it lists, about 15 items/lines that the coupon won't work with (i.e., Wedgewood, Mikasa, etc., etc.)

**KitterCat** · 12-03-2009, 08:41 PM

7) Store personnel checking your receipt as you exit the store.

I actually have to agree with her on this one. Unless I’m going to a store that requires a membership then I shouldn’t be treated like a thief simply because I chose to shop at your store. Giving off the excuse that “if you don’t have anything to hide, you don’t have to worry” doesn’t cut it with me. It’s a poor excuse to invade my privacy. Every time I’ve had the little door buzzer go off its been either because the cashier didn’t deactivate a sensor (dvd) or its malfunctioned and is buzzing people randomly.

**Broomjockey** · 12-03-2009, 09:04 PM

7) Store personnel checking your receipt as you exit the store.

Lemme see if I can short-circuit this argument right now, because it's about as old and annoying as "can a merchant ask to see ID for Visa purchases."

Pro checking: keeps theft down, minimal hassle

Anti checking: made to feel like criminal, invasion of privacy

If the place has memberships they can set whatever policy they want and you suck it up if you sign up, if a place as a sign in plain view, you've tacitly agreed to the policy if you enter the store, only maybe not really because what if you're illiterate or don't speak English. If you don't like a store that does bag checks, don't shop there, I shouldn't have to go out of my way to avoid illegal searches.

Blah blah blah, yadda yadda yadda I'm so stuffy, give me a scone.

If I missed anything, don't let me know.

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