Doctor Who - Bells of Saint John (SPOILERS)

[cinema guy]

It was an okay story. It was similar to many of the new series stories. It had a very similar theme to The Idiot Lantern and it felt quite a bit like Partners in Crime too.

Good things: Celia Imrie was great, the Great Intelligence, Snog Box.

The bad: the plot didn't really make any sense. One minute they were downloading people, the next they could control everybody. There wasn't really much resolution - what happened to all the downloaded people?

Interesting things: Who is Clara - we are no nearer to an explanation. Who was the woman in the shop who gave her his phone number? My guess is River.

Has it been shown in the US? What did you guys think of it?

[smileyeagle1021]

The bad: the plot didn't really make any sense. One minute they were downloading people, the next they could control everybody. There wasn't really much resolution - what happened to all the downloaded people?

Interesting things: Who is Clara - we are no nearer to an explanation. Who was the woman in the shop who gave her his phone number? My guess is River.

The assumptions I made was that the people were downloaded so that the bodies could be controlled completely (like those in the control center) and that the pervasive wifi signal was enough to cause partial control over everyone else (could have been better explained and I could be way off).
I'm assuming all the downloaded people woke up again with no memory of what had happened, much like Clara and the people in the control center did.
As far as the shop girl, it could be River, but I'm also kind of suspecting Rose (they have announced that Billie Piper is coming back for the 50th, I guess there is nothing to say that with the wibbly wobbly nature of Doctor Who and the fact that Clara's timeline is not yet completely established, we could find out that the doctor has crossed his own timeline to meet Clara and Rose and the Doctor are also out there).

[customersruinmylife]

I do agree on the story being a bit of a mixed bag. What happened to all the people that had been downloaded once they were released? Surely some of them had been found by someone and buried/cremated. How was there not more mass coverage that people were dropping dead in front of their computers with no explanation?

However, in spite of all that, the Doctor and Clara are going to make an awesome combination. I loved Amy and Rory, but I think she's going to be even better. Dear producers: please don't give her a boyfriend!!

[Caffienated_Caramel]

Husband is watching it right now not saying anything to spoil it for him.

[Kheldarson]

Kabe and I weren't big fans of the Great Intelligence. It's an interesting villain, but I don't think it can really sustain being an interesting long term villain. Maybe a lead in to a greater threat.

What happened to all the downloaded people? We were told that. Most of them died. No bodies to go back to. But the Doctor declared that better than staying in a living hell.

Did think the episode had one of the greatest intros the Doctor has ever given himself. And I still <3 Clara.

On the mysterious shop girl, it could be one of the companions, or it could be Tardis interference. Remember, the Tardis always takes him where he needs to be.

[Jay 2K Winger]

I agree, it was an okay episode, and it didn't answer too many questions, because of course there must be a reason to tune in next week.

I'm sure we'll get a better idea of what the arc of this half-season will be by next week. The identity of the woman in the shop will surely be part of it, and it remains to be seen what the Great Intelligence's role will be going forward.

[firecat88]

On Tumblr, I saw one suggestion that the woman in the shop is Sally Sparrow.

Also, I've said it on both Tumblr and FB and I'll say it here- I already love Clara. XD The Doctor's finally found a companion who's as big a spaz as he is.

[KhirasHY]

I really enjoyed the episode (thus, the new signature ), but I have some theories about this season. Going to hide the text as white text, so highlight it if you want some guesses

Possible spoilers for previous seasons and this one, or at least hopeful rantings, below. Don't read if you don't enjoy possible answers...I'll warn you that I predicted the antagonists of season 3 and 4 within the first episode or two, so this may ruin the suspense if I'm right

1. The "Great Intelligence" isn't a computer program...if I'm right, it's the writers returning an old villain. I've had a suspicion that the Valeyard is going to be the overall antagonist for the 11th Doctor's run the last few seasons (remember the voice saying "Silence will fall" his first year, they never identified that voice).

2. For those who don't know, the Valeyard was a former character who was revealed to be the Doctor, somewhere between his twelfth and "final" regeneration, and basically a fallen, evil version of him. He has never been officially killed in the canon story, and thus could still exist somehow (hiding in the wifi, perhaps?). He did go MIA after his last defeat, where he was trapped inside the Tardis in an alternate timeline, paralyzed first by fear of exiting and screwing things up, and by a security protocol second. By being stuck, seemingly forever, the timeline restored itself and he remained trapped inside the Tardis at some point.

3. The Valeyard's been hinted at the last couple years; First was in Amy's Choice, the "Dream Lord" is easily a reference to the Valeyard (he despised his "good", former self). Second in "The Pandorica Opens" (the Tardis being controlled remotely, the "silence will fall" voice, but if he's trapped inside the Tardis he could affect it). Third was in "A Good Man Goes To War", where River quite clearly points out how the Doctor is turning into someone more fearsome than respectable. You could also point to the "Waters of Mars" episode as an early indicator of his dark side really manifesting. IMO, they've been building towards this for a while.

4. The technology shown in this episode, including the ability to control human thought and action, as well as memory, is similar to things that Time Lords have been shown to be capable of. The Master's stories in the new series involved both subtle brainwashing (as Mr. Saxon) and direct physical overwriting (in The End of Time) of humans. As the Valeyard is The Doctor, it would be well within his abilities to manipulate humanity in some other way.

5. Finally, for a brief moment, we saw the face of "The Great Intelligence", who very closely resembles Michael Jayston, who played the Valeyard originally (freeze frame the face in the new episode, and google the old one...their characteristics are VERY similar). Furthermore, when Ms. Kislet refers to UNIT as "old friends of the Doctor", he replies that they are "old friends, very old friends" which sounds a bit too familiar.

6. Last one, really, imagine what sort of opponent could be dangerous enough to (according to rumor) involve many of the living actors coming back to reprise their roles as former Doctors. Who other than The Doctor himself could be so dangerous?

End ramblings I could be way off, but I'm starting to think more and more that I'm correct in this. I guess we'll see

[Raveni]

Does Clara keep her computer skills after the "factory reset"?

[Jay 2K Winger]

End ramblings I could be way off, but I'm starting to think more and more that I'm correct in this. I guess we'll see

Some answers to your ramblings, and I will spoiler as well--

[The 'Great Intelligence' was indeed an older foe of the Doctor's, but was featured much more recently, in this year's Christmas special, "The Snowmen."

The actor who gave a face to the Great Intelligence was Richard E. Grant, who played the Doctor in "Scream of the Shalka" and "The Curse of Fatal Death." Grant played Dr. Simeon, an envoy of the Great Intelligence much like Ms. Kislet in "The Snowmen."

The 'Spoonheads' also behaved much like the G.I. in "The Snowmen," as the G.I. was for a long time incapable of doing anything but acting as a mirror, repeating lines that were said to it, though the G.I. evolved after feeding off Dr. Simeon for so long.]

The rest of your suppositions are all pretty interesting.

Anyone notice who wrote the book that the Maitland's son is reading? [Amelia Williams. Who do we know named Amelia? Who's married to a Williams?]

So others know, there were two shorts that precede this episode. One is a prequel to the episode proper, and features a lonely and sad Doctor sitting on the swings of a playground, having a chat with a young girl. They discuss losing things-- he mentions he lost a friend twice now, and now he can't find her. She tells him that when she loses something, she goes to a quiet place. She eventually leaves with her mother, and we find out (though the Doctor doesn't) that she's a young Clara.

The other short is more of a bridge between "A Good Man Goes To War" and "The Snowmen," called "The Battle of Demon's Run, Two Days Later." It basically shows how Strax came back from the dead. [He wasn't dead. His injuries weren't fatal. He just fainted. And then he agrees to accompany Madame Vastra and Jenny Flint back to Victorian London.]

[cinema guy]

I really enjoyed the episode (thus, the new signature ), but I have some theories about this season. Going to hide the text as white text, so highlight it if you want some guesses

Okay, so I'm going to white out my discussion of your points:

But the Great Intelligence was a villain from the old days. He/it controlled the Yeti.

The face was Richard E Grant. From the Snowmen.

I think the Intelligence will be a villain in its own right.


However it turns out, it will be interesting watching.

[Jay 2K Winger]

┓┏ 凵 =╱⊿┌┬┐
■ ╔ ▲ ∏∟┼ ╗
╙ ◊ ∕ ∩ ⌂ U ╖

someone help me I don't know where I am

[Raveni]

The other short is more of a bridge between "A Good Man Goes To War" and "The Snowmen," called "The Battle of Demon's Run, Two Days Later." It basically shows how Strax came back from the dead.

Are we supposed to white out spoilers in a spoiler topic? I guess I will too:

I thought it was about dresses?


I thought that his injuries were fatal, and they were just giving him a hard time about "fainting" (along with using the machine that Strax used on Clara in The Snowmen).

[wolfie]

One thing I don't get about Dr. Who - why does the Doctor have a finite number of incarnations? Admittedly it wouldn't have seemed as bad when the series first started, but (I don't watch it) they're on at least the 10th (and possibly the 11th) incarnation, so they only have 1 or 2 left. What happens when they run out of incarnations?

[Jay 2K Winger]

One thing I don't get about Dr. Who - why does the Doctor have a finite number of incarnations? Admittedly it wouldn't have seemed as bad when the series first started, but (I don't watch it) they're on at least the 10th (and possibly the 11th) incarnation, so they only have 1 or 2 left. What happens when they run out of incarnations?

The in-story explanation they gave was it was a limitation imposed by Rassilon (aka The Guy That Created Virtually All of Time Lord Technology), but it could be overridden. IIRC, the reason the Time Lords didn't go beyond 12 regenerations was because it led to degradation and corruption in the energy that they used to do it. There's probably also a limit to the amount of regenerative energy that a single Time Lord can use.

That said, remember that Melody Pond used up the remainder of her regenerations to save the Doctor's life from the Judas tree poison. That could give him some additional regenerations on top of the single one he has left.