Brain Picking

[sms001]

Hey guys and gals. Just need some info on 'electric fences' for dogs. Pluses, minuses, expanse, range, successes, failures, anything at all. Friend just got 12 acres in upstate New York and wants to let her dogs roam a bit. Thanks in advance.

[KhirasHY]

Out of curiosity, why electric fences, and not just plain, regular fencing? Overall that would be reduced cost for the same effect. Here are the cons (that I know of) with electric fences:

1. If the dogs are diggers (can be trained away), electric fences can be a pain, since the dogs can eventually figure out how far into the ground to go to get under them. They can do this with normal fences too, but...

2. Normal fences cost less over time, since you don't need to constantly be feeding power into them.

3. If they are properly stained and given weather guard coats, a normal fence can last decades with minor ongoing care. Electric fences come in a few varieties (ie, single wires wrapped into a frame, or an entire chain link mesh, and so on), but they are much harder and more expensive to repair in my experience. It's been years and years since I owned one, but the last one I lived with had to be almost completely replaced if there was a short/break in the wrong place, as it would cut electricity to the whole fence line.

4. If the objective isn't to keep the dogs in, but to keep other animals out, you still have a bit of an issue. See, most animals that would be a threat to a dog are larger, which means more current needed to repel them. More current could be dangerous to the dog, but too little current and anything large enough won't feel it enough to matter. Furthermore, a lot of "pest animals" like raccoons, foxes, and skunks can easily burrow under any fence, so they won't be kept at bay in a wild area.

Those are the biggest cons that we ran into when we had an electric fence waaaaaaay back in the day, for our dog and rabbit. It basically ended up being a huge waste of money paying for the electricity, and it didn't accomplish anything (we trained the dog not to dig, but the rabbit got away constantly until it got hit by a car one day). We got rid of the electric fencing, replaced it with a normal wooden fence, and haven't replaced it to this day (about 20 years later).

[Aislin]

Are you referring to a electronic fence by any chance? The ones with the boundary stations and the collar that give a tone then a mind jolt to stop the dog from leaving an area. I have trainer who does the whole virtual fence bit. If the area is wild I would not recommend that as an option. Our neighbors dogs chased down a moose and the drive to hunt overwhelmed the instilled respect for the fence and they ended up on the wrong side of the fence. They were on the outside with no way back in. It takes a ton of dicpline and training on the owners part and the dog is rarely safe from predation from other dogs or wild animals. A real fence is a better option

[sms001]

Thanks Khir, Aislin.

I have no idea why they're considering electric fence over real fence, except maybe the fact that they're Brooklynites and it seems less intimidating? Can't imagine that something w/ 12 acres would be in a HOA type area that would preclude a real fence.

K - I think they're just exploring options and have seen piccys of me pitting up t-posts and tape for our horses. I totally get why it's kind of a no-go for smaller animals, thanks for confirming.

A - Heck, I've seen dogs excited enough about a frisbee that they'd probably ignore a zap. And of course, it would keep nothing out.

Thanks for the input.

[Kheldarson]

Since the friend is in a bigger area and wants to have roam space, I would not invest in an electronic fence. Either get a real one or invest in a training collar.

The real fence would be cheaper over time but has the added bonus of keeping outside creatures out as Khiras and Aislin said.

However, if aesthetics are desired (which is half the reason for an electric fence), then training collars to train the dogs on how far they are allowed or to at least respond to verbal commands to come back would be a good solution. You wouldn't be able to keep critters out, but at least the dogs wouldn't get hurt while chasing said critters, and you'd have better trained dogs.

[ArcticChicken]

We had an invisible fence for our dog once. It sucked. He would get super excited about something and run over the fence, then be stuck on the outside. Also, the guy who installed the fence put the collar on him too tight, and the zap burned holes in his neck. Luckily there was no permanent damage, but it was a huge waste of money.

[Sapphire Silk]

Hey guys and gals. Just need some info on 'electric fences' for dogs. Pluses, minuses, expanse, range, successes, failures, anything at all. Friend just got 12 acres in upstate New York and wants to let her dogs roam a bit. Thanks in advance.

12 acres is too big an area for an electric fence. The cost would be prohibitive. Electric fences are meant for sururban house holds; to go on a parcel that is , at most, 1/2 acre in size.

Use a real fence for the majority of the property. Good fences make good neighbors.

If you use an electric fence, you really want them close to the house. Dogs allowed to wander any further away may meet other dogs and develop a pack mentality that can get someone hurt.

Check your local ordinances and make sure electric fences are allowed under the leash laws.

And expect an electric fence to fail eventually. I know very few dogs who will actually respect one for very long.

If the goal is to let the dogs run while the owner is inside, a run line is a better option. You can run a line you can clip a leash to over as long or short a distance as you want to give the dog running room. However, it is a bad habit to leave a dog on such a line for more than a couple of hours per day, and is considered a sign of neglect in some districts. Check local laws.

[sms001]

Thanks again all. I think I've got 'em convinced to skip it. They weren't going to fence all 12 acres, just an area around the house, but the big "cons" were that it isn't 100%, doesn't prevent ingress, and needs more supervision than they thought. I certainly appreciate you helping my bud with your collective wisdom.

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Hopefully they'll see my firmest suggestion - a LARGE run, as the best solution. If not, I bet the first skunk encounter convinces them.

(Oh, and Saph, I'd already suggested a zip-line, their new property has a good selection of trees. Although I've never done so, and these folks wouldn't, I didn't know that using one long term could constitute neglect.)

You folks are the best, thanks!

[Sapphire Silk]

Again, check your local ordinances. Tethering a dog is legal in my county, but illegal in a neighboring county.

There have been some high profile cases of dogs dying from lack of food and water, or strangulating themselves on a tether. They should be checked after an hour, and left on a tether for no more than 2 hours.

[mathnerd]

Good training, along with a real fence is the best choice for a rural area. My dogs rarely wander outside of the area of my property that I designated at "dog friendly". That area is only about 1/4 of the total property, or about an acre. The only time they cross the imaginary line I set is when their predator drive overrides their training, and even then I know because they come back looking like naughty school children. For the times that I need them contained, but not inside, I have run lines. I use those mostly for the gigantic mastiff that cannot be convinced that the lawn mower isn't the evil spawn of Satan that's out to kill his boy (my 14 year old son) and tries to attack it every time anybody tries to mow the lawn. If we put him inside, the tries to claw out of the doors and windows, so the run line is the best choice for keeping him and our possessions safe.

[Seraph]

All I can say is, never put both of the connectors on your palm, turn it up to the highest setting, and then run at the fence.

Just...don't.

[dalesys]

All I can say is, never put both of the connectors on your palm, turn it up to the highest setting, and then run at the fence.

Just...don't.

Is that how you got your mutant fire-starting powers?

[Seraph]

It's a possible cause, can't rule it out. <.<