Douchebag ruined our evening, or why you can't be too careful

[Seshat]

It's always easier with "... and someone who's not paying attention".

But that's a very pretty cup.

[mathnerd]

There's that. And in this case, it wasn't that we weren't paying attention. There was a timing thing going on as well. The bartender served the drinks when we were on our way back from the bathroom. So, he set several drinks down in front of one person. As crowded as it was, with a busy bartender and the distance, the opportunity was there. If I or any of the others had been thinking, we should have asked the bartender to replace the drinks, but like I've said before, we did let our guards down, and this is exactly why you shouldn't do that. Should we have asked for replacement drinks? You betcha! As somebody else stated, harsh way to learn a lesson, but you can bet in the future I won't make that mistake again.

[Jester]

Jester, have I told you lately that I love you?

Lately? No. No, you haven't.

Jester, I think one of the reasons our perspectives are different is because you're a guy.

Of course we have different perspectives because of that. But I like to think that, growing up with sisters and having so many female friends, I at least kinda get the female perspective.

I'd hesitate because even though I'm not a weakling, on the chance that somebody did get violent, I'd be toast. Heck, you could take me down and I outweigh you by at least 20 pounds.

It's not always about size. I'm a small guy at 5'8" and 160 lbs. If a 6'2" 230 lb dude spiked my girlfriend's or niece's drink, and I saw him, who would you put your money on?

Also, this type of scumbag obviously has no respect for women, and would be less likely to get douchy with a guy than a chick in a confrontation.

Yes and no. They have no respect for women, true. But if a strong woman confronted them assertively, do you really think most of these scumbags would do anything beyond mouthing off to that chick? They talk a good game, but while they present themselves to the world as rigatoni, they are in reality angel hair. (If anyone's confused, it's a pasta reference. Look it up, it'll mark sense.)

And Morgana, don't tell him that! Key West is already barely big enough to contain his ego! j/k. Jester's a great guy. I consider myself lucky to be his friend.

All three statements are absolutely true.

How about the Tervis stuff?

One of the reasons I got into the habit of drinking beer straight from the bottle is that the smaller opening is harder to spike. Not that it can't be done, but it takes a bit more effort.

Honestly? I could probably spike both of them. But then, I have patience and training in sleight of hand. And honestly, if someone is absolutely determined to spike your drink, and they have any skills at all, the odds are in their favor.

The good news is that the type of person that would do this sort of shit is going to go for the easy targets, not the challenge.

It's always easier with "... and someone who's not paying attention".

The number one deterrent to such shit is paying attention.

So, he set several drinks down in front of one person.

Which leaves open the possibility that the culprit was actually trying to spike someone else's drink, and not targeting your group. Or, alternatively, that he spiked several drinks, and was laying back in wait to see who would succumb and how, and them move in as a "white knight."

From a cold-hearted calculating perspective, this approach actually makes some sense.

[Jay 2K Winger]

It's not always about size. I'm a small guy at 5'8" and 160 lbs. If a 6'2" 230 lb dude spiked my girlfriend's or niece's drink, and I saw him, who would you put your money on?

Always bet on Jester.


I've often had people comment they wouldn't want to fight me, not because I'm a big guy (6'2", 275+ pounds), but because I fight dirty.

Which I highly recommend for anyone that needs to defend themselves. You don't get any points for fighting fair. Do what you have to do in order to end it quickly.

[mathnerd]

Oh, I have no problem fighting dirty. And I'm almost always armed (where it's legal). I've also used one of those weapons in self defense, and yes, I won that round. Living room window and the guy outside didn't fare so well. But in a fist fight, even a small guy has a lot of advantages over me, fighting dirty or not.

As for Jester, yeah, if it's somebody he cares about that got hurt, there's no limit to the crazy.

[Jester]

Always bet on Jester.

A good bet.

I've often had people comment they wouldn't want to fight me, not because I'm a big guy (6'2", 275+ pounds), but because I fight dirty.

Which I highly recommend for anyone that needs to defend themselves. You don't get any points for fighting fair. Do what you have to do in order to end it quickly.

I've always been amused by people who talk about "fighting fair." Unless it's a professional or organized fight, such as MMA or boxing or kickboxing, there is no such thing as a fair fight. There's just a fight. And when you're my size, there is no fair. People like me are starting out at a disadvantage, physically. So, if someone is coming at me to hurt me, fuck "rules." My first goal: disable them. Best bet: scrotum punch. As in, drop to one knee, and drive my closed fist so far into their scrotum I can feel what they had for breakfast. Second best bet is first bet is not available: eagle claw. Which is as I was told by a martial artist friend of mine, basically grabbing their scrotum with one hand and squeezing it claw like until something pops, either their scrotum, their hold on you, or their will to live. When a scrotum shot is not available, best bets are the knees, the eyes, and the throat.

And since we're talking about fighting "dirty," here's something my father taught me to do when I was a young boy; though I've never actually implemented it myself, I have explained it to all my nieces, in detail. I call it the Three Step Takedown.
1. Spit in their face.
2. When their hands reflexively go up to their face, stomp with all your weight on their foot, ankle, or knee.
3. When they double over from this, bring your elbow down hard to their skull.

My goal in a fight is not to retain my "honor," but to survive with as little damage to myself as possible. Which means inflicting as much damage as necessary to the opponent to disable them and "win" the fight.

And the above is just if I'm trying to survive an attack. The above might be among the preliminaries, but do not fully explain the lengths I would go to if I were dealing with some schmuck who just drugged or struck my girlfriend, female friend, or niece.

As for Jester, yeah, if it's somebody he cares about that got hurt, there's no limit to the crazy.

Absolutely no limit. Even I'm not fully sure how it would end up. Because, to date, no one's been that utterly stupid around me.

Yes, I talk a big game. And in a regular ole street fight, I would more than likely get my ass kicked, dirty fighting or no. I accept this as reality.

I also know that if someone harmed someone I cared about, reality would go running for the nearest exit and cower out of my sight. Ask the guy who, years ago, I chased up Green Street with a baseball bat. I'm pretty sure his speed, as drunk as he was, would have qualified him for the Olympics. Of course, he probably wasn't expecting me to produce a baseball bat.....

[mathnerd]

The above might be among the preliminaries, but do not fully explain the lengths I would go to if I were dealing with some schmuck who just drugged or struck my girlfriend, female friend, or niece.

---snip---

I also know that if someone harmed someone I cared about, reality would go running for the nearest exit and cower out of my sight.

I think I'm gonna have to echo Morgana here. Have I told you lately I love you? Cause if I haven't, I really should.


Back to the fighting thing, I may be strong, but I'm slow. I instinctively know how to disable somebody if they attack me from behind, but a front facing attack is different, and even with the self defense classes I've taken, I just can't seem to be able to move like they tell me I should, and those classes taught how to fight dirty. Like you said, the goal is to simply survive and get away. Still, I have a tough time with it.

[Jester]

You are partly right.

In the average fight, my purpose is to survive and get away.

In a situation involving intentional harm to a loved one, getting away is not likely to be on my agenda. In such a situation, I believe my agenda would read something like this:

--Survive.
--Inflict massive damage.
--Cause them to cry, cower, crawl, and or beg.
--Inflict more damage.
--Break their spirit.
--Inflict even more damage.
--Make it clear to them, their friends, and anyone witnessing it that fucking with my loved ones is a bad idea, much in the way trying to win a war on two fronts, one of them being Russia, was a bad idea for the Germans. (Have I mentioned that I'm part Russian?)
--Inflict yet more damage, preferably some of it permanently debilitating.
--Once all above items are achieved, then and only then get mad, and inflict angry damage.

Have I ever mentioned on this site how utterly, completely, and evilly vindictive I am?

[Gizmo]

Back to the fighting thing, I may be strong, but I'm slow. I instinctively know how to disable somebody if they attack me from behind, but a front facing attack is different, and even with the self defense classes I've taken, I just can't seem to be able to move like they tell me I should, and those classes taught how to fight dirty. Like you said, the goal is to simply survive and get away. Still, I have a tough time with it.

Can I suggest that I *might* know why you can disable from behind and struggle face to face?

Because behind you instinct is kicking in. You aren't reacting to the attack but purely to the fact someone is in your space.

In front of you then your eyes are getting into the matter and they are slower than your instincts. And they are seeing the guy doing move A and thinking "I've been taught to counter this with move G..." rather than just 'sensing the intrusion' and moving it away from you. As such when I'm fighting/sparring I'm not seeing the body parts moving or what look is on their face or anything like that. I'm working from the 'disturbance' in the energy of the air if that makes any sense...

I have recently learnt some sword work for reenactment. The *best* move I ever made was when a member of the group jokingly went to 'attack' me when he was at my sword side but I was looking 90 degrees away from him (aka not ready). Before I knew it my hand had brought up the sword to block his blade and push it away... resulting in me catching his knuckles on his sword hand...

I was barely aware I was doing it til it was over. And dealing with him sulking as the rest of the group were rolling round on the floor in laughter that he got knuckled by a newbie....

[mathnerd]

Gizmo, that's a good point. The other thing I've noticed is I just know how to use my weight to my advantage if I'm using my arms or legs to strike somebody who's behind me, but can't seem to do the same thing if the person is in front of me.