Battlestar Galactica finale, my thoughts (spoilers)

[Talon]

My exams recently finished, so I finally got a chance to see the BSG finale.

For those who haven't seen it yet, stop reading now.

First the good parts:
- The Colonial forces' attack on the Psilon base. That was numerous shades of awesome.
- Lee saying goodbye to Adama, and that mention of his earliest memories of watching him leave on a plane, and wondering when he'd return. "This time he's not coming back." That was very poignant.
- Adama and Roslyn. Of all the people on the show, those two rank as my favorites. Sad what happened to Roslyn, but fitting. Time for her to rest.
- Baltar mentioning he knows about farming, then suddenly overcome with emotion over the past. What do you know, he has a heart after all.
- The final shot of Hera, playing in the grass, followed by scrolling landscapes. That and the music. Very haunting, very beautiful.

Now the bad parts:
- Kara Thrace. So she's an angel. Riding in from heaven on a brand-new Colonial Viper. Riiight. "And God said, let there be a Mark II Colonial Viper. And there was the Viper. And God saw the Viper, that it was good. With a brand-new paint job." I don't think so. I liked her a lot better when she was dead.
- The flashbacks. Oh look, Caprica looks identical to our Earth, except with a few cosmetic photo-shopped shuttle landing bays. Same clothes, same tech., same everything. Real imagination at work here. But worse, except for Baltar and Boomer's flashbacks, they added nothing whatsoever to the story. Should have been left behind on the cutting room floor.
- Cavil's Psilon faction. They only got part of the ressurection tech. They're still out there somewhere, and now facing extinction. What happened, they just took it lying down?

And the biggest bullshit pile of all: They sent the Colonial fleet into the sun, for a "fresh start". WTF??? When they start getting diseases they can no longer treat since they sent all their knowledge into the sun, tell me again how good that "fresh start" is looking? I get that for human history to remain cannon, this is the only possible ending, but couldn't someone have come up with a better idea than this? What if Cavil's faction finds them again? What if Earth gets hit by a meteor? And what if Earth turned out to be poor in mineral/metal deposits? What if Earth can't support an industrial FTL-spacefaring economy? What if the Colonials become landlocked on this single planet forever? Contrary to that dogmatic "All of this has happened before, and all of it will happen again", there's no guarantee humanity could develop space travel again. Possibly my biggest complaint is that the Colonials forsook knowledge. Their science, their history, all gone.

I had some ideas last night. Perhaps the colonials and psilons agreed to destroy their fleets as part of a peace accord? The hope being by the time the factions returned to space and met again, they would have forgotten the scars of the old wars.

Another idea I had borrowed a page out of the game Homeworld. The Colonials left their fleet assets hidden on the surface of one of Jupiter's moons. Then they put together an time-capsule type archive containing all the knowledge they could accumulate of the lost Colonies, the history of their journey, and the location of the fleet. The archive would then be split up into several fragments, and each fragment would be buried in each of the major Earth landmasses. They would each be equipped with a radioactive beacon, something with a half-life of hundreds of thousands of years, so that the fragments could be found again in the far future. Finally, the archive could not be fully decrypted unless all its fragments were assembled. That way only a coalition of humans from every corner of the globe could learn the secrets of their past, and the way to their future.

So my verdict on the finale is pretty much the same feelings I have for the BSG series overall. If I were to summarize with Yahtzee-style wit, I would say "Moments of absolutely stunning brilliance, almost buried by plot hole issues and spunk."

[RayvenQ]

To be honest, I preffered it when they were on the run (before they settled on that first planet)
Oh and it's Cylon.

[SG15Z]

I personally loved it! Sure the abandoning all tech and advancement was a little 0.o and we didn't really find out what Kara Thrace is, but overall it was good. I liked the flashbacks, they really brought closure in a way to each character.

As far as Caprica, I think they were trying to get at that humanity keeps repeating the cycle in a similar way each time. Similar architecture, cars, clothing, etc. It's all meant to feel similar yet foreign at the same time. I think they did a good job mixing it up.

So basically overall I'm satisfied. One of the best endings for a genre show ever, I mean come on you have to admit it was a better ending than other sci fi shows.

[smileyeagle1021]

- Baltar mentioning he knows about farming, then suddenly overcome with emotion over the past. What do you know, he has a heart after all.

oh, I actually cried at that part... so much emotion. It was also a line that hit me really hard... especially since I can hear my grandma saying something similar "you know, I know about nursing"... her dream was to one day open her own outpatient care facility... yet every time she tried she failed and had to go back to being just another nurse.

On other notes... I think it makes sense that they would destroy all their technology and knowledge, after all, they just spent 5 years being hunted down by the technology they created... 5 years running out of supplies already... personally, after 5 years of that, I would have no faith in technology either and would give everything to be free of that burden.

And I also liked the flashbacks... it gave really good character insight. Things like Adama refusing to take the lie detector test (which was being administered by a Cylon if no one else noticed) showed a lot about his character, same with the whole kara thrace/lee flashback.

The one thing that irritated me throughout the whole series... Eddie Olmos's son was in the series and not as Eddie Olmos's son... and you could tell it was his son by looking at him... Jamie Bamber is a great actor, but standing him right next Bodie Olmos, it's really obvious that he isn't the Admiral's son.

[Pedersen]

Now the bad parts:
- Kara Thrace. So she's an angel. Riding in from heaven on a brand-new Colonial Viper. Riiight. "And God said, let there be a Mark II Colonial Viper. And there was the Viper. And God saw the Viper, that it was good. With a brand-new paint job." I don't think so. I liked her a lot better when she was dead.

Except she's not an angel. Head Six and Head Baltar (the ones that could only be seen by Gaius and the Six) were much closer to being some sort of angel type thing. Kara was a real person, felsh and blood. She lived, and she could die, as proven by the body they found on Earth. Who or what she is is not actually established, other than being some sort of hand of god thing.

Actually, by refusing to name what she is, they made her story better. Any name they could apply, any explanation they could provide, would only cheapen her story. Now, she's still a mystery that can be debated.

- Cavil's Psilon faction. They only got part of the ressurection tech. They're still out there somewhere, and now facing extinction. What happened, they just took it lying down?

Actually, they're not. This is the one thing that they should have found a way to put into the finale, but failed to. Per an interview with Ronald D. Moore the day after the finale aired here in the US, he stated what happened to them.

Remember that the Cylon Colony was orbiting a singularity that had only one place that anybody could possibly jump in. Remember that Racetrack wound up getting killed, and got bumped enough while dead to inadvertently launch the nukes into the Colony. The explosion that she caused was sufficient to knock the Colony out of orbit, and closer to the singularity.

Once that cycle started, that faction of Cylons were done for. The Colony falls into the singularity and is destroyed. There is no Cavil, there is no Cavil faction. The entire remainder of all Cylons and all Colonials is the fleet that jumped to Earth.

Which helps to explain why the following was allowed to occur:

And the biggest bullshit pile of all: They sent the Colonial fleet into the sun, for a "fresh start". WTF??? When they start getting diseases they can no longer treat since they sent all their knowledge into the sun, tell me again how good that "fresh start" is looking? I get that for human history to remain cannon, this is the only possible ending, but couldn't someone have come up with a better idea than this? What if Cavil's faction finds them again? What if Earth gets hit by a meteor? And what if Earth turned out to be poor in mineral/metal deposits? What if Earth can't support an industrial FTL-spacefaring economy? What if the Colonials become landlocked on this single planet forever? Contrary to that dogmatic "All of this has happened before, and all of it will happen again", there's no guarantee humanity could develop space travel again. Possibly my biggest complaint is that the Colonials forsook knowledge. Their science, their history, all gone.

The entire point of sending the fleet into the sun is to destroy any chance of all of this ever happening again. Consider what they've learned these past five years:

Their homes were destroyed by the technology they've created. 99% of all of humanity was killed in a minute by that same technology. The surviving bit has been hunted, attacked, and suffered losses of around another 30% to 40%, by that same technology. For five years, every day has been a struggle to go to sleep no worse off than you woke up. All due to that technology that they have created.

Furthermore, it's happened at least once before that they have confirmed (Kobol), some variation has happened elsewhere (Earth), and as far as they can tell this cycle has been happening for thousands and thousands of years.

By now, they've had the point drilled home that technology can (and will) destroy them every time they become dependent on it.

They don't want a space faring civilization to come up again. They don't want Cylons to be made again. They want to make sure that this cycle is broken and gone and cannot return. The only logical choice is to destroy every vestige that can possibly bring things back and restart the cycle. Hence the destruction of the fleet.

Furthermore, since the entire Cavil faction is dead, there is nothing to fear from their return. Life will be hard on Earth. It will suck in many ways. But they will be free from the things that did them the most harm, and able to go to sleep at night comfortable in the belief that the cycle cannot start again They're wrong, of course, but they do believe they've done it.

[SG15Z]

^ What Pedersen said. Yeah the real reason I had qualms with Kara is that she and Lee will never be together even though they OBVIOUSLY love each other from the very beginning. And the shipper in me died when she disappeared, but from the angle of what she is, it is the most satisfying. Her being an "angel" would cheapen it.

BTW: Anyone see the Caprica pilot yet! Cause I have and I loved it! 2010 can't come fast enough! Oh well we have 'The Plan' this fall.

(which was being administered by a Cylon if no one else noticed)

Wait what? Really?! Now I need to re watch that! *Turns on DVR*

[Talon]

Except she's not an angel... Kara was a real person, felsh and blood. She lived, and she could die, as proven by the body they found on Earth. Who or what she is is not actually established, other than being some sort of hand of god thing.

If she's not an angel, then she's an extremely fast runner to have vanished in Lee's eyeblink. Either that or Lee blinks very slowly.

Actually, by refusing to name what she is, they made her story better. Any name they could apply, any explanation they could provide, would only cheapen her story. Now, she's still a mystery that can be debated.

Oh I appreciate a good unsolved mystery. It's that brand-new Viper she appeared on that I can't get past. If she had shown up in an ancient ship, something with familar-yet-alien technology from the ruined Earth, I'd be satisfied. As it is, the writers played their cards wrong, and pushed the Deus Ex Machina envelope too far.

Actually, they're not. This is the one thing that they should have found a way to put into the finale, but failed to. Per an interview with Ronald D. Moore the day after the finale aired here in the US, he stated what happened to them.

Remember that the Cylon Colony was orbiting a singularity that had only one place that anybody could possibly jump in. Remember that Racetrack wound up getting killed, and got bumped enough while dead to inadvertently launch the nukes into the Colony. The explosion that she caused was sufficient to knock the Colony out of orbit, and closer to the singularity.

Once that cycle started, that faction of Cylons were done for. The Colony falls into the singularity and is destroyed. There is no Cavil, there is no Cavil faction. The entire remainder of all Cylons and all Colonials is the fleet that jumped to Earth.

It's a shame that didn't show up in the finale. But that doesn't change my misgivings over the Colonials' forsaking of their knowledge. There's still a possibility of a meteor hitting Earth, or it turns out not to be the garden paradise they had hoped (alien diseases perhaps?).

Their homes were destroyed by the technology they've created. 99% of all of humanity was killed in a minute by that same technology. The surviving bit has been hunted, attacked, and suffered losses of around another 30% to 40%, by that same technology. For five years, every day has been a struggle to go to sleep no worse off than you woke up. All due to that technology that they have created.

Big flaw in that logic. While I agree that the Cylon race still has a lot to answer for, those same evil technologically-spawned Cylons also had a hand in securing Humanity's salvation.

They don't want a space faring civilization to come up again. They don't want Cylons to be made again. They want to make sure that this cycle is broken and gone and cannot return. The only logical choice is to destroy every vestige that can possibly bring things back and restart the cycle. Hence the destruction of the fleet.

If the colonials really believe that, then the past 5 years have taught them nothing.

That kind of Luddite thinking sets a very bad precedent for Humanity's future. First off, they're condemning their future generations to ignorance, superstition, and fear. Second, what about the Cylons who stayed behind? What about Hera, the half-Cylon? If Carl and Athena could reproduce, there's no guarantee the other Cylons couldn't crossbreed with humans. Rejecting knowledge and technology out of fear of the Cylons runs a grave risk that Hera and her children could be subject to persecution, marginalization, even slavery. Sound familiar?

Ignorance is no savior.

[ferebee]

And the biggest bullshit pile of all: They sent the Colonial fleet into the sun, for a "fresh start". WTF??? When they start getting diseases they can no longer treat since they sent all their knowledge into the sun, tell me again how good that "fresh start" is looking? I get that for human history to remain cannon, this is the only possible ending, but couldn't someone have come up with a better idea than this? What if Cavil's faction finds them again? What if Earth gets hit by a meteor? And what if Earth turned out to be poor in mineral/metal deposits? What if Earth can't support an industrial FTL-spacefaring economy? What if the Colonials become landlocked on this single planet forever? Contrary to that dogmatic "All of this has happened before, and all of it will happen again", there's no guarantee humanity could develop space travel again. Possibly my biggest complaint is that the Colonials forsook knowledge. Their science, their history, all gone.

The thing is , we saw the series from the point of view of those on galactica for the most part - we only got glimpses of what life was like in the rest of the fleet. Life on Galactica was rough enough, but imagine you're just some average joe or jane on an intercolony flight - we saw colonial one - it just looked like a slightly more upscale jetliner. Come the armageddon you're trapped on your airline flight for five long years in constant fear, surrounded by the same walls, with probably the same people, with no hope of anything better except the vague idea of Earth, which the fleet might never find. You might have got that one year on New Caprica off ship, but after the cylon takeover that was just more fear, misery and deprivation. If you were lucky, and got back to your ship, more running in fear, eating algae, and general misery. Then, Earth! Yipee, we're here...Oh, it's a radioactive wasteland...oops. If you didn't blow your brains out, like Dee, it's back to running.

Finally, here's Other Earth, green and lush, weather, unrecycled air, clean water. Here's Lee Adama saying start over new, break the cycle that brought all this about. I can see a fair number of the colonists going yeah, okay, there's lotsa problems with this, and it's real dangerous, but at least we're not on a frakking ship any more. We might just all die of disease or get eaten by lions and hyenas, but then again, we might not. There's some hope here, at least.

I don't for a minute believe they sent those ships into the sun without salvaging everything that could possibly be useful to them on the new world, just not the high technology that most of them wouldn't have been able to operate or repair anyway. It's not shown how long it was between first landing and the dispersal of the population - it's likely that anyone who was left with useful skills for survival would likely have been broken up - assigned among the various groups as much as possible to give people some chance.

As for losing their science and history, they really already had lost most of it when the colonies were destroyed. If you think of all the specialist disciplines it takes to keep society ticking along in the colonies, then wipe out most of the population - most of the specialists are gone, and all their knowledge with them.

The only books that survived are what people had with them - some computers in the fleet might have had reference material on them, but would you expect the sewage vessel or the container ship to have "A History of the Twelve Colonies" or " How to Manufacture a Microchip from Base Materials to Finished Product" in their databases? Maybe Galactica, Cloud Nine (destroyed) or the space park ship - most of the little utilitarian ships probably didn't. Would anyone who survived really be able to use them, given that their specialists and specialist tech were gone? History and culture was mostly just what the colonists themselves carried in their heads and in the shape of their daily lives at that point.

Whoa ... that ended up longer than I thought - overall I was happy with the finale - though I could have done without the NYC coda. Such pretty space porn in the final battle...

[SG15Z]

I also could have done without the robot montage. That was very lame.

[smileyeagle1021]

I don't for a minute believe they sent those ships into the sun without salvaging everything that could possibly be useful to them on the new world, just not the high technology that most of them wouldn't have been able to operate or repair anyway. It's not shown how long it was between first landing and the dispersal of the population - it's likely that anyone who was left with useful skills for survival would likely have been broken up - assigned among the various groups as much as possible to give people some chance.

a very good point. something to relate to this discussion should be the Foundation series by Isaac Asimov... in that series the Empire had high technology to spare... what they lacked was people who knew anything about its proper use... the Empire decayed into a thousand year civil war, with a lot of the conflict being over factions fighting for the last remaining bits of working high technology. The colonists were probably smart enough to know that the only way to guarantee that didn't happen was to get rid of it all together.

I also could have done without the robot montage. That was very lame.

agreed... they could have ended the show an entire 60 seconds sooner... I personally think they should have stopped right after "this has all happened before... but will it all happen again"... they should have left it at that... 6's bullshit answer that 'no it's not because it's time for something different'... come on... we're all adults, we can handle a question that is left to the audience to decide the answer to.