Ok, I HAVE to have some sort of recourse here, but what?

[Kusanagi]

Long story short, I'm 99% certain that my boss at the furniture store sabotaged a job I had lined up.

I've spent the last 3 weeks looking for a job, and had gotten accepted at a pool supply place here in San Diego. I had filled in the new hire paperwork, and was supposed to start today. All they needed was to contact the employer reference, and the last one they had to talk to was my old boss that I worked under for years.

So I get a phone call yesterday afternoon, and it's the manager from the pool supply place.

Me - Obvious
Her - manager

Me: Hey, good to hear from you! What time do you want me to come in tommorrow?
Her: Yeah, um...look. I can't hire you.
Me: Huh? Why?
Her: Your employer reference with the furniture company didn't check out.
Me: ...what? What do you mean, didn't check out?
Her: I really can't go into it or divulge what was said.
Me: No, I have a right to know. What is this previous employer saying about me that caused you to change your mind?
Her: Look, I can't get into it and we decided to go with someone else. I'm sorry.
Me: I don't get this. You realize that under california state law the only questions you're allowed to ask are if I worked the dates listed in my resume and if I'm rehireable. I TOLD you there was a chance this employer was hostile towards me because I refused to go along with them when they were wanting a paper trail to fire a pregnant coworker when she went on leave. I told you this. When I left voluntarily I was told I was rehireable. So someone is lying to me. I have a right to know who. So he either said I didn't work there, I wasn't rehireable, or you were asking questions you had no legal right to ask. Which is it?
Her: Sorry, I can't get into it. *click*

Needless to say, I am FURIOUS. There HAS to be some sort of recourse I have here.

When I would be contacted as an employer reference, ALL THE TIME the person calling would ask me about what type of employee this person was, how they got along with people, etc. I would have to constantly remind them that "You realize the only questions you're allowed to ask and I'm allowed to answer under state law are dates of employment, and you can't even ask why someone is no longer at their job?" EVERY TIME I had to say this.

Damnit! I'm so pissed off I can't even see straight. I KNOW my old boss M just cost me this new job but I have no way to prove it!

[MaggieTheCat]

That's harsh. I'm sorry for the crap you've gone through recently trying to find a job. Unfortunately, I don't really know what to say. Is this something you can go to the labor board with?

I know at my old job, (I was an interviewer) when we were doing interviews, we would do reference checks BEFORE telling someone if they were hired or not. To tell someone they were hired, then do a reference check that could potentially give you some info that would make them unhirable, would just be...low and disgusting, I think. Which is exactly what this pool company did to you. Also, I know when we asked former employers questions for references, there were some (maybe most or all) that we probably shouldn't be asking. Like, "How would you rate their work," "Why did they leave," "How was their attendance" etc. Most of the time we did get answers to these questions and they could have a very strong impact on whether we hired the person in question or not. However, when we GAVE references to someone else calling about one of our former employees, we would only verify dates of employment. Talk about hypocritical, huh? My dad used to own his own business and said what we were doing (asking the above questions during reference checks) was illegal. I have no idea if really is or not, though we never got in trouble for it while I was there.

Good luck and I hope someone else is able to give you better advice and that you can get something resolved from this!

[Mikkel]

I don't know anything about American labour laws but if it's illegal to ask and answer certain questions there must be some kind of recourse.
Anyway I just wanted to wish you luck, someone here will certainly be able to help

[Aethian]

Don't know where your at exactly but this link is of all the labor board offices. I beleive your going to have to file a complaint with them over the place that didn't hire you and over the furniture stoe.

[gremcint]

have a friend call and pretend to be someone who is checking your references and see what he says.

[BookstoreEscapee]

have a friend call and pretend to be someone who is checking your references and see what he says.

That might not be a bad idea...

[Aethian]

I would so do that...

[Eric the Grey]

have a friend call and pretend to be someone who is checking your references and see what he says.

This was my first thought. Find out what is being said and then nail the bastard to the wall.

Nowadays most companies have policy forbidding anyone from doing anything but confirming dates of employment due to the threat of lawsuits against them for loss of wages, etc. Companies who say things that prevent an ex-employee from finding work take a chance on loosing a lot of money.

I'm generally not one to suggest legal recourse (ie: suing the pants off of 'em) but in some cases, it's more than worth it.



Eric the Grey

[Mnemjian]

You definitely have the right to at least know what was said about you. It sounds like they must have at the very least said that you were not re-hireable by the company or were terminated without notice, which is apparently untrue. If you provided notice for voluntary termination of employment then that should have been the only thing spoken about between these people other than your dates of employment and the position you held. I worked in HR (in San Diego too, woot!) where people would have to call me to check references for previous employees, and it's a big NO to talk about anything other than that. It's also incredibly unprofessional of them to have you fill out the new hire stuff and give you a start date without having completely confirmed your status as a new hire. I don't know but that doesn't sound terribly legal either. California employment law is incredibly biased towards the employee so I bet there is some recourse you are able to take regarding this. I really hope that you get that worked out! Hopefully you get an even better job and it won't even matter about these idiots

[Bandit]

I second having a friend - or one of us loonies - call them and ask for a reference. And get it recorded.

It could be the smoking gun that you need. Might be hard as California is a two-party state, but with the right person, I'm sure they could get around that.

B

[tropicsgoddess]

I don't know anything about American labour laws but if it's illegal to ask and answer certain questions there must be some kind of recourse.
Anyway I just wanted to wish you luck, someone here will certainly be able to help

It is. They can only ask about the position(s) you held at that job, the period you worked there and some places may allow them to ask if you're eligible for rehire. It's illegal for employers to give out defamatory references.

[Jester]

Kus, you do have the right to file a complaint, and perhaps you should do just that. File the complaint....and then let it run its course, and continue to job hunt. And have someone call your ex-employer and find out what they are saying about you. I will gladly do it if you would like me to. My mom having been a secretary for over 40 years, much of it in HR and administration, I am well-versed in how to sound like a corporate drone over the phone.

That being said, I think you are missing the blessing in disguise this is. No, seriously. Would you want to work for a company that either (A) asks questions about your employment that they know by law they are not supposed to ask of a former employer of yours they had already been informed would probably be hostile towards you, or (B) despite being told that said former employer would probably be hostile towards you, goes ahead and starts the hiring process only to "go in another direction" when that former employer turns out to be (surprise!) hostile towards you? Do you really want to work for that cowardly and spineless a company?

Dude, they did you a favor. Go ahead, file the appropriate paperwork (I'll be your stooge for finding out what the hostile former employer is saying about you), but don't lose any sleep over it, don't stress over it, and move on with your job hunting.

I am often wrong about things, and freely admit it. However, I do not think this is one of those times.

It's illegal for employers to give out defamatory references.

It's illegal. It's also rather common. Sometimes in direct comments, sometimes in veiled indirect comments....but still common nonetheless. Does it make it right? No. It just means that's the way it is. It's what you do about it that matters.

[Aethian]

I second having a friend - or one of us loonies - call them and ask for a reference. And get it recorded.

It could be the smoking gun that you need. Might be hard as California is a two-party state, but with the right person, I'm sure they could get around that.

B

Michigan is a one party state...

That and one could say they are recording the conversation because of more then one good hire and they want to go with the best decision.


Edited... I take that back Michigan is now a all-party state along with California...*mutters*

[wolfie]

Is Florida a one-party or all-party state, because that's where Jester is.

Giving a start date and then doing a check which could result in withdrawing the offer? That's just asking for a lawsuit (not to mention being sleazy). What happens in the case where an applicant waits until they have a firm offer (with start date) before giving notice at their previous employer? If that offer is then withdrawn, leaving the applicant unemployed, the company that withdrew the offer could wind up on the hook for lost wages until they get another job, since by making the offer they induced the person to quit their previous job.

[Jester]

Is Florida a one-party or all-party state, because that's where Jester is.

I have no idea what Florida is, as I really don't understand this one-party/all-party stuff to begin with. But what does Florida OR myself have to do with this? Kus is in San Diego, which is in California, not Florida.

If that offer is then withdrawn, leaving the applicant unemployed, the company that withdrew the offer could wind up on the hook for lost wages until they get another job, since by making the offer they induced the person to quit their previous job.

Again, while this may have some bearing on the general field of labor law, it has no bearing on the specific situation of the OP, as he had left his previous job long before the new company offered him a job and then withdrew their offer.