Of Life and Sour Love

[cewfa]

Hi guys, I don't post on here much but I am daily reader. I am posting this to get some things off my chest about a situation in a safe environment where no one knows me and because you guys seem to be a caring community of people.

About a month ago I fell in love with a special girl that I had known for a while and started to express that love. I bought her some nice things for Valentines Day and was actually starting to think that my love for her might be reciprocated. We do work together and she told me that she couldn't have a relationship with me while we worked together but said nothing else about it either way. I agree with that and was still pursuing her for after I quit, which if my book sells will be pretty soon.

Last night I was having a conversation with a friend of mine and he told me that she wasn't interested in me and that he thought I should know this before things went any further. He doesn't have any feelings for her and she doesn't for him, so it isn't anything like that. I called her this evening and told her that I appreciated her feelings but that my feelings got hurt more because I didn't hear it from her. She apologized and said that she was flattered but there was another person and she didn't want to hurt my feelings. She offered me friendship and I told her that I wanted to be her friend but that I needed some space first. She understood and we ended the conversation on a good note.

I'm proud of myself because I didn't get mad and cuss her out like I would've done a couple of years ago and because I was gracious with her. I don't have self-esteem issues and I do know that there is someone else out there for me and that they will be what I deserve. I also know I have a lot to offer people. I'm not going to do anything foolish or rash, but at this point I have to acknowledge how bad this hurts and I guess I just needed to get it off my chest and maybe get some positive feedback and reassurance from strangers. My friend who broke the news to me has been helpful, but I need support from a disinterested third party if you will.

Thanks for listening,
cewfa

[Food Lady]

I think you both handled it well. Still hurtful, though. Sorry that happened. I've been in your intended's position and that's not fun, either. Kudos to you for being mature about it.

[cewfa]

Yeah, I know it wasn't and isn't fun for her. She truly is a special lady. Her new boyfriend is a lucky man.

I just wish it was me.

[Plaidman]

I know that feeling. I been on reciving end way to many times.

Time heals all wounds, blah blah. Yeah. That really doesn't sound good does it.

It could. It might not. In anycase, yeah. Sorry it happen. Get a soda. Soda is good. Cherry Pepsi. Mmmmmmm. And BBQ. You'll feel better.


And We're here. We always are.

[cewfa]

I've been drinking the hell out of Cherry Dr. Pepper.

I'm still in the process of sorting out all of my feelings, but I feel much better than I did five or six hours ago. I don't know if the shock has completely worn off yet or not, but I just keep pushing through. I feel a lot of different emotions from sadness to anger to even relief. I had so many questions I wanted to ask her tonight when I talked to her, but I didn't really see the value in asking them because they were either condescending or ones where she probably wouldn't have told the truth anyway. Even though I think the world of her, I still can't help but wonder if she was not saying anything out of deference to my feelings or because she wanted free gifts. I don't know if that is the hurt and anger talking or if I really am suspicious of that. I'm leaning towards the hurt and anger talking, which is why I didn't accuse her of it.

My emotions are on a wild roller coaster right now. One minute I feel almost OK with the situation and ready to be a supportive, loving, friend to her and then the next minute I want to bawl my eyes out and then yet a minute after that I never want to see her again. I am probably one of the most sensitive and emotional men you'll ever meet, which makes it even harder. I don't play around with women, I try to treat them with respect and treat them with dignity. I don't sleep around and I've only had two sex partners my entire adult life and I was engaged to both those women. I just plainly and simply don't use or screw around on women, so I guess sometimes I wonder why they aren't interested in a guy like me, but will go for the scummy asshole who treats them like shit. Granted, I used to be one of those guys, but I turned my life around and dealt with most of those underlying issues and I just don't understand why she would pass me up.

Whoopsie, there goes my pride again. Anyways, I am going to go take my fourth shower for today (not having a water bill on my apartment is nice) and go to bed. Tomorrow starts day one of my new lifestyle of losing some weight, eating a bit healthier and continuing down the journey of self-improvement.

Thanks for listening,
cewfa

[Plaidman]

I just plainly and simply don't use or screw around on women, so I guess sometimes I wonder why they aren't interested in a guy like me, but will go for the scummy asshole who treats them like shit. Granted, I used to be one of those guys, but I turned my life around and dealt with most of those underlying issues and I just don't understand why she would pass me up.

There's a crap load of reasons woman do that. One is that man who is consitentally nice and sweet to a woman, or /nice guy/ is proving at least somewhat, that he has no respect for himself. That he is willing to do that whatever is to make her happy, over himself. You basically become their servent, and that just isn't attractive. Most woman, can do no wrong to /nice guy/. Even if they cheat, beat them, insult them, etc etc.


Gah. I'm not good at explaining it. I just know it sucks. I don't truly get it ether, but hey, singlehood is just in my life regardless of what I do.

Look. Enjoy shower. Shower fun. Sleep fun too. And yeah, rollarcoaster of emotions are totally to be expected.

[Eireann]

A lot of women DON'T go for the assholes, cewfa. And of those who do - well, would you want to be involved with a woman who thinks some jerkoff walks on water? Getting involved with a jerk means that the woman (or man) has emotional issues that attract that kind of person. Also, the twatwads of the world are very, VERY good at manipulation. They know how to look good, say the right things, act as if they care, then promptly drop the act once they've sucked in the other person.

It's not as if your average person says, "Hey! I really like being involved with assholes! You never know where you are with them, and they alienate your family and friends and destroy your social life!" There are people who go out looking for the scum of the earth - and I've met a few of these - but overall, people get involved with jerks, and stay with them, because of pretty packaging, a nice smile, an attentive nature, and these are the things that they think of nostalgically, and use as an excuse not to bail, when things go south.

As for this woman, she hasn't been honest with you. She should have told you herself, rather than letting a friend tell you (it sounds as if she may have asked your friend to tell you, so that she wouldn't have to do it). If there's someone else, this may have been going on since before you fell for her. It's better to find these things out now, than get involved even more deeply - and with all due respect to your feelings and opinion, she doesn't sound like a "special lady" to me.

My advice to you is, rather than saying to yourself, "I respect women and don't screw around; why aren't they interested in me?" say, "I respect women and don't screw around; I improve on a daily basis, I work on myself constantly, and the woman who sees me and wants me for the exceptional man I truly am, is a lucky and perceptive woman."

Otherwise, you're focusing on the negativity, and sending out messages to the world that women aren't attracted to you.

[Plaidman]

My advice to you is, rather than saying to yourself, "I respect women and don't screw around; why aren't they interested in me?" say, "I respect women and don't screw around; I improve on a daily basis, I work on myself constantly, and the woman who sees me and wants me for the exception man I truly am, is a lucky and perceptive woman."

Otherwise, you're focusing on the negativity, and sending out messages to the world that women aren't attracted to you.

Something everyone shruggles with. Especally when one only sees the woman dating jerks. Makes one thing that alot of men are attracted to the precieved (To them anyway) Victim, and wanna play hero deep down. Because who doesn't wanna be Batman?

Or in a friend of mine case, wants to date a woman who goes for assholes so that he can get away with stupid crap. Even I wonder why he is still single. (Sarcasm there).

[Eireann]

Something everyone shruggles with. Especally when one only sees the woman dating jerks. Makes one thing that alot of men are attracted to the precieved (To them anyway) Victim, and wanna play hero deep down. Because who doesn't wanna be Batman?

Unfortunately, a lot of us are also sucked into the "victim/rescuer" game, where the other person plays helpless, and we feel that we're somehow better people for helping them. It's just another form of dysfunctionality; it just looks better to others (for a while, anyway) and to ourselves (usually for longer).

I like to focus on the couples who have healthy relationships - and, yes, I know, they're in the minority - rather than those who are various shades of dysfunctional.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

There's a crap load of reasons woman do that. One is that man who is consitentally nice and sweet to a woman, or /nice guy/ is proving at least somewhat, that he has no respect for himself. That he is willing to do that whatever is to make her happy, over himself. You basically become their servent, and that just isn't attractive. Most woman, can do no wrong to /nice guy/. Even if they cheat, beat them, insult them, etc etc.

.

You know, there is some bit of truth to that. I hate to say it, but there you go.

Being nice to people does not make you a doormat. However, being nice to the point of being pandering does. I'm not saying that is what you did. You sound pretty straight up. But just keep in mind one sad truth: The person who cares the least has the power. This is why nice guys complain that girls don't take them seriously;.

It's a fine line. Of course you should be nice and try. Just don't try too hard. (Is that what you are trying to say, Plaid?) It's a happy medium that is extremely hard to find and stay on.

Also, so she's got another boyfriend. It's not the end of the world. She's not married to the guy. Let's see if it works out or not, It may, or it may not.

[cewfa]

Being nice to people does not make you a doormat. However, being nice to the point of being pandering does. I'm not saying that is what you did. You sound pretty straight up. But just keep in mind one sad truth: The person who cares the least has the power. This is why nice guys complain that girls don't take them seriously;.

It's a fine line. Of course you should be nice and try. Just don't try too hard. (Is that what you are trying to say, Plaid?) It's a happy medium that is extremely hard to find and stay on.

I don't feel that I am a pushover, I do stand up for myself and I do tell people how I feel. I just try to be respectful and not overbearing about it. However, one of the biggest ways I express love to someone is to do things for them or give them gifts. I believe that is one of the five love languages if I am not mistaken. One of the biggest ways someone can show me love is by being affectionate and complementing me. This is what attracted me to her initially is that she was affectionate towards me, at times (by my perception anyway) to the point of being like a girlfriend. I find a sweet, affectionate woman very desirable. Crude women, and yes I believe women can be just a crude as men, are not attractive to me.

It's not as if your average person says, "Hey! I really like being involved with assholes! You never know where you are with them, and they alienate your family and friends and destroy your social life!" There are people who go out looking for the scum of the earth - and I've met a few of these - but overall, people get involved with jerks, and stay with them, because of pretty packaging, a nice smile, an attentive nature, and these are the things that they think of nostalgically, and use as an excuse not to bail, when things go south.

As for this woman, she hasn't been honest with you. She should have told you herself, rather than letting a friend tell you (it sounds as if she may have asked your friend to tell you, so that she wouldn't have to do it). If there's someone else, this may have been going on since before you fell for her. It's better to find these things out now, than get involved even more deeply - and with all due respect to your feelings and opinion, she doesn't sound like a "special lady" to me.

My advice to you is, rather than saying to yourself, "I respect women and don't screw around; why aren't they interested in me?" say, "I respect women and don't screw around; I improve on a daily basis, I work on myself constantly, and the woman who sees me and wants me for the exceptional man I truly am, is a lucky and perceptive woman."

Otherwise, you're focusing on the negativity, and sending out messages to the world that women aren't attracted to you.

I know that most people don't just say "hey I want to date an asshole", but sadly a lot of the women I know seem to get sucked in by them. I do say that a woman would be lucky to have me because I am an exceptional man, but I also wonder why they don't want me at the same time, especially when they muse aloud that they want a man who will "treat them right". Then again "treating them right" is subjective.

Believe me, I am far from happy about hearing it from our friend and I am pretty mad at her for not telling me straight up, especially since I made such an effort in pursuing her, just to show her I wasn't like other men. I don't think that she necessarily asked our friend to tell me, I think he did that of his own volition, but I do wonder when she was going to tell me, and for that reason I am glad we didn't work out because she has a real problem telling people how she feels, especially if it will hurt them. I don't think she did this to intentionally hurt me.

I don't know anything about this other guy, she didn't tell me and I didn't feel it was my business to ask.

[Eireann]

I know that most people don't just say "hey I want to date an asshole", but sadly a lot of the women I know seem to get sucked in by them. I do say that a woman would be lucky to have me because I am an exceptional man, but I also wonder why they don't want me at the same time, especially when they muse aloud that they want a man who will "treat them right". Then again "treating them right" is subjective.

...I don't know anything about this other guy, she didn't tell me and I didn't feel it was my business to ask.

It's not just women who get sucked in; it's men, too. It's not a problem that is exclusive to women, by any means. Why don't they want you? It's easy to say, "Because they go for assholes," but that's not necessarily true. Think of all the women you know who are more than decent, who are intelligent, real people. You aren't attracted to all of them, half of them, or even very many of them. It's a matter of, for lack of a better word, chemistry. Sometimes (well, more than sometimes; most of the time), two people just don't click. It can't be forced. It does happen, of course, that two people can grow to view one another as more than friends, but again, it takes time for that to happen. There are plenty of women out there who would "treat you right", but that doesn't mean that you would want them to do it. The feeling has to be mutual, and if it's not, the whole thing is just a waste of time.

I have a VERY good friend. I've known him since high school. If this were a bad movie, we would eventually have realized our latent feelings for one another, and we would have ridden off into the sunset by now. But this isn't a bad movie, and we just don't fit in that way. He's like a member of my family, and I like to think that he sees me in the same way. He's very important to me, I value his friendship more than most friendships I've had with men, and there has never been anything between us that was more than friendship. This doesn't mean that he's a bad person, or that I am. It means that we are not right for each other in that way. It doesn't make either of us less valuable personally. I've never wondered why he didn't want me as more than a friend. I want him right where he is in my life. Friendship, in my opinion, is too important to screw it up by trying to push something that simply isn't there. We need our friends just as much as we need our romantic partners.

[Flying Grype]

IHowever, one of the biggest ways I express love to someone is to do things for them or give them gifts. I believe that is one of the five love languages if I am not mistaken.

Two things there.

1) Not everyone thinks that gifts and favours are a sign of love. For some people, if gifts and favours start too soon, it seems like sucking up. Some guys do the smother-her-with-gifts-and-niceness thing just to get a woman into bed. As a woman I've always been leery of that way too nice stuff too early on. It can seem really dishonest. Learn different ways of expressing your love, in case the person you're trying to express it to doesn't understand your favourite expression.

2) If you give a gift it should be because you care about someone without the expectation of getting something back -- whether that something is a gift in return or a relationship. When a guy says "I do nice things for her, why doesn't she like me?" it makes me suspect that he's thinking in terms of points and debt and people owing each other. That's not what love and friendship are about.

[cewfa]

Two things there.

1) Not everyone thinks that gifts and favours are a sign of love. For some people, if gifts and favours start too soon, it seems like sucking up. Some guys do the smother-her-with-gifts-and-niceness thing just to get a woman into bed. As a woman I've always been leery of that way too nice stuff too early on. It can seem really dishonest. Learn different ways of expressing your love, in case the person you're trying to express it to doesn't understand your favourite expression.

2) If you give a gift it should be because you care about someone without the expectation of getting something back -- whether that something is a gift in return or a relationship. When a guy says "I do nice things for her, why doesn't she like me?" it makes me suspect that he's thinking in terms of points and debt and people owing each other. That's not what love and friendship are about.

Very good points and definitely something to think about. I can tell you that I didn't get her those things with expectation of getting anything in return, nor was I doing it to get into her pants. I don't regret getting her those things, and I only brought them up to explore whether or not I really believed she was communicating to get more gifts or if I was letting the hurt and the pain do my thinking for me. I have come to the conclusion that when I said that as a possibility that my hurt and pain was doing my thinking for me, and I do not sincerely believe that she was doing that.

It's not just women who get sucked in; it's men, too. It's not a problem that is exclusive to women, by any means. Why don't they want you? It's easy to say, "Because they go for assholes," but that's not necessarily true. Think of all the women you know who are more than decent, who are intelligent, real people. You aren't attracted to all of them, half of them, or even very many of them. It's a matter of, for lack of a better word, chemistry. Sometimes (well, more than sometimes; most of the time), two people just don't click. It can't be forced. It does happen, of course, that two people can grow to view one another as more than friends, but again, it takes time for that to happen. There are plenty of women out there who would "treat you right", but that doesn't mean that you would want them to do it. The feeling has to be mutual, and if it's not, the whole thing is just a waste of time.

You are right about this and I didn't mean to suggest that men don't do the same thing. As a matter of fact, both my exes were women that I had just settled for for one reason or another. I also don't have a problem with friendship with this girl or just being her friend, I just need some time to heal before I go down that route. I do also have a female friend that is like that too and I cherish her and would never want a relationship with her because we are good friends and because she is old enough to be my mom.