Seriously, Dad? This Needs To Stop. (VERY Long, venty, blood boiling)

[Eireann]

You have EVERY right to be in counseling, and comparisons with other people are only another way for you to torture yourself. That's one of the ways in which the abusers get people to enable them; they convince the enablers that they (the enablers) are useless, worthless, etc. This is your life, not your father's or your mother's or your brother's, and you have more right than any of them to have a good life. That's not you talking, when you say you have no right to be in counseling; that's the abusive speech of your father.

If you're not ready to wade through the emotional muck now, when you will be ready? Nothing - repeat, NOTHING - is worse than what you're experiencing now. Therapy can only help you, but you have to be ready to be helped, and to accept positive change in your life.

I know. I've been there.

[Amina516]

Edit to add: I noticed something. Why is not ok for me to come home past 10 at night, not ok for me not to tell anyone where I'm going and not ok for me to spend my money on "useless crap" (I don't think the occasional crystal or oil or fairy statue is useless) but on his days off, brother is allowed to do whatever the fuck he wants, disappear for hours without telling anyone, come home smelling of drugs and whatnot? Is it because he works with autistic children by day and therefore he's considered "saintly"? I know boyfriend noticed how tense the atmosphere in my house was when he visited and how relaxed the atmosphere is in his house by comparison. At the same time, I'm honestly baffled that he says his house is so relaxed. What does he mean, that his parents don't scream or yell or throw abuse around? What is calmness? How can they live without abuse thrown around?

In my opinion, b/c he's a boy. Your dad has some issues with controlling you. If you were to say, get pregnant among other things, his control over you and his thoughts (if he has any) of you still being his little girl, go right out the window. Is he as controlling with your mom? Just a thought.

I know youre in a tight financial bind, but I still feel the best place for you to be is out of that house.

[trailerparkmedic]

You're in college? Go talk to finanical aid about student loans, even if you're a part time student. I imagine you're not eligible for a ton of financial aid since you're still a dependent, but you're eligible for federal student loans (amount dependant upon year in college) and private student loans. Borrow enough money to get an apartment, whether a tiny studio for yourself or shared with roommates or even just a rented room in a house. Debt free is nice and all, but sanity is way better.

To find a place to live: talk to every single person you know and tell them you're desperate for a roommate/place to live. When I left my husband, three different people offered their couches for as long as it took to get back on my feet...and I thought I didn't have many close friends at the time.

Evaluate how badly you need a car. I understand that in some areas, a car is a necessity, but you mention that you can get to your friend's by bus. Are there places you simply must go that don't have bus service? Can you cut them out for a short time, until you can get a down payment and a cosigner for the car?

Think about how much happier you would be if you didn't have to deal with your dad. My fiance has pretty much cut his mother out of his life because of her drama and toxicity, and it has made him much less stressed and way more happy.

[AdminAssistant]

Also, your school probably has some kind of student housing that may be cheaper than an apartment and you wouldn't have to find other transportation. You could also probably qualify for work study and work on campus.

[ralerin]

College housing sounds well and good; I'm graduating in 4 weeks however. That option is pretty much out the window until I decide to go for my master's in a year or so. I'm too SICK of coursework to consider going back in the fall.

I'm desperate to get out but not truly that desperate; it boils down to: how will I afford rent/food/transportation to work if I make WAY less than the poverty level? Work is not on an easy bus route; it's on several routes, but I can't afford to leave home 2 hours earlier so I can hop the bus, ride all around the city and come back. I don't always have $5-15 for a cab.

@ Eireann: My mother wanted me in counseling-dad was hesitant "Ah she doesn't need counseling, what is this, blah blah blah". I want to go to counseling; but ask if I have money? Not really; and I hesitate to use Aid of Rite's services because I'm afraid that it will cost me money I don't have and that my managers will find out and spread gossip like wildfire. "Oooh, ralerin is in counseling, stay away from her, she's screwed up!" I am ready to be helped (just a little leery of wading through the emotional muck but I'll do it), I just don't. have. money.

@ Amina: Yes; but mom got sick of his bullshit a long time ago and amazingly-Dad seems to have backed off. I need courage to tell Dad to fuck off, though.

[blas]

I think it's the boy thing, with your parents.

My little brother gets away with everything under the sun, has no curfew, no rules, nothing.

Then they wonder why he leaves for days on end and sometimes skips classes.

Meanwhile, I moved out at 19 because I was sick of a midnight curfew, being forbidden to stay at boys' houses, being forbidden to hang out with certain people or even stay at some girls' houses, threatened to have my car taken away every chance they got when they'd catch me breaking a rule, and having to pay for all my own stuff. Well, that last part came about when I found out brother doesn't have to buy his own food.

[phantasy]

@Phantasy-Cool! Well, not col as in "oh my god that's so cool that you're incurably ill" but cool as in "oh cool, you have the disease to and we can relate!" How bad is yours?

And I would pack my bags and bring my money except I have none to speak of. Want to lend me some? :P

That just made me laugh at work, now my coworkers are looking at me kinda weird.

It's bad enough to wear finger ring splints. I can also contort myself enough to touch my heels to my nose, and I can bend my arms in a complete circle around my body with my fingers clasped together, lol. I can still play a cello and violin though!

Back to your thread, it sounds like your father has control issues, and probably other underlying mental issues. I will recommend getting our as soon as you can, maybe to school housing or bunking with a roommate in a studio apartment. Maybe your mother can help you without your father knowing, at least until you get on your feet.

Youre 21! Celebrate and move out! Maybe your boyfriend can support you for the first few months. Still, that might not be the best idea. Nevermind! Never depend on your significant other! Always depend on yourself, no matter how much you love/trust them.

[ralerin]

@phantasy: Nice for telling me to rely on boyfriend and then not. Make up your mind! :P

Today's latest thing: I offered to buy Boyfriend toiletries for his visit before he comes with the understanding that he will pay me back when he gets here (so I'm saving the receipts). Even though I get a discount at Aid of Rite, I'm waiting for stuff to go on sale because it's a little cheaper that way, or if I can calculate that said item will be about the same as the sale price with the discount.

Because of the EDS, boyfriend has fragile, stretchable, VERY easily tearable skin, so he asked if I could pick up a 4 pack of "Varmin" Ultra Soft toilet paper and "Fleemex" ultra soft tissues. Great! The "Varmin" is on sale this week, $2.99, so I pick up a pack and had to buy the "Fleemex" at a different pharmacy because we don't carry the ultra soft variety. When I get in the car with the "Varmin" and a few other things, Dad is immediately upset.

"Why are you buying that? He's not a big enough boy to buy his own toilet paper so now you have to wipe his ass for him, too?"

"We have an agreement this time. I am buying his toiletries as they go on sale so we won't have to waste an hour buying them."

"How d'you know that he's going to pay you back?"

"Because he's honest. I'm keeping the receipts and we'll go over them when we get to the hotel that night. Ok?"

"*grunt*"

Now buying toilet paper=boyfriend needs a nursemaid.

[Evil Queen]

uh... if your dad hates all those things... what does he like?

[Eireann]

There's always a way to find counseling without having to pay an arm and a leg for it, or even exceeding your budget. Try your school; put up notices; do whatever it takes.

The pattern here is clear. You hate the way your life is going, you want it to change, but when suggestions are made, you shoot them down. You're so used to your life the way that it is, that any ideas for change - even if it doesn't seem that way - are threatening, because they mean that you're changing your comfort zone.

The problem is that we can get used to any situation life throws at us, and when we're faced with the prospect of change, even (and perhaps especially) positive change, we panic and retreat to what is familiar, because then we know where we are. It does take courage (or desperation) to make that change, but once it's made, the rewards are endless.

Such as never hearing the abuse of a thoroughly toxic person. Such as being able to relax at home. Such as not having to dread walking through your front door. Such as having healthy relationships. Such as communicating with others in the knowledge that they really WANT to hear and understand your point of view.

Doesn't that sound wonderful?

[trailerparkmedic]

it boils down to: how will I afford rent/food/transportation to work if I make WAY less than the poverty level?

Subsidized housing/roommates, food stamps/food bank/Angel Food Ministries, and can you transfer to a closer store or live closer to work? Got a friend/coworker who will give you rides for gas money?

Edit: What Eriann said. Change is hard and scary but can be very, very good.

[phantasy]

Sorry! OK, I meant to say "Don't completely depend on him, just be careful when moving out on your own to be with someone"

I don't like making up my mind. I'm a wild one, lol. I'm not very much help, am I?

Your father needs to lay off though. Buying tiolet aper DOES NOT = Nursemaid. It means that you went out of your way to buy him some toilet paper. This now gives you the grounds to make your mother ask him to buy her tampons, follow him to the store while he does it, and say something just as obnoxious as he did to you.

[ralerin]

The problem is that we can get used to any situation life throws at us, and when we're faced with the prospect of change, even (and perhaps especially) positive change, we panic and retreat to what is familiar, because then we know where we are. It does take courage (or desperation) to make that change, but once it's made, the rewards are endless.

Such as never hearing the abuse of a thoroughly toxic person. Such as being able to relax at home... Such as having healthy relationships. Such as communicating with others in the knowledge that they really WANT to hear and understand your point of view.

Doesn't that sound wonderful?

Yes. But I can't get past the fact that change = time and $$$. Even if counseling is for free or near free, I have next to neither. I will have time in the next few weeks though. Right this second, I don't have any.

I'm graduating in a few weeks but I have next to no clue about what the next step is and no chance of even getting to that next step because I cannot afford a car. I want a car, even if it's a crappy little 2 door with a broken A/C; but I cannot afford insurance; I cannot afford gas, I cannot afford to fix anything that goes wrong. And what I want has inevitably been lost in the shuffle of being told what I should have-an SUV, large, huge, gas guzzler that will keep me safe and that I don't know what I want. Well, I know what I want-it's money. Money, money, money.

This is how I feel in the end: Guilty for nearly everything. Guilty for being the "last chance" my parents had at biological children and surviving; guilty for being female, guilty for being so fat, guilty for spending $300 of partly my money and partly dad's on myself for new clothes that I needed and makeup to look pretty at my senior thesis reading; guilty for going to college because it costs a tremendous amount of money and dad is helping me pay; guilty for even having a boyfriend in the first place; guilty if I take time away for myself for anything; guilty for receiving any presents that boyfriend offers ($100 bracelet? Ticket to a movie? A dinner paid? It took ages for me to accept the ipod that he's offering) guilty for spending my own money on things that I want; and extremely guilty for even thinking that I might be abused. It doesn't even feel like abuse. How can a man who's helping me pay for college, bought me flowers for Valentine's, helped me pay for new clothes and asthma medication and who caters to my every whim POSSIBLY be abusive?

Counseling, food stamps, subsidized housing? The money for me has to come from somewhere. I don't like the idea of living for free on someone else's dime: how many stories are on here about people who can obviously afford expensive cars, clothes and whatnot live on food stamps and take advantage of the system? Why should I live for free on the government when I can try to pay for my own stuff?

can you transfer to a closer store or live closer to work? Got a friend/coworker who will give you rides for gas money?

Work is about a five minute drive and 15 minute walk away and there are no vacancies in the apartment buildings that I know of. Plus again: money for rent? And no.

@ Phantasy: I should add: my parents are in their 60's-they are from the baby boom generation. Talk about a major generation gap.

[trailerparkmedic]

Counseling, food stamps, subsidized housing? The money for me has to come from somewhere. I don't like the idea of living for free on someone else's dime: how many stories are on here about people who can obviously afford expensive cars, clothes and whatnot live on food stamps and take advantage of the system? Why should I live for free on the government when I can try to pay for my own stuff?

Because you've already admitted that you can't. It doesn't feel great, but social services are there for a reason. I know I'm not the only one here who has admitted to being on food stamps before. Most people on government assistance are cool, just like most customers are ok.... it's just the idiots that stand out.

This guilt you feel? NOT NORMAL. Guilt is used by abusers to keep the abused under control.

Here's what will come as a strange suggestion--contact a domestic violence hotline or shelter for help. They have resources to help people with nothing make it. You're not a typical case because your abuser is your dad, but if I had a friend whose husband/boyfriend/etc was doing what your dad is doing, that would be my first suggestion.

A nationwide, toll free number is 800-799-SAFE. They can at least listen and give you better advice than some random internet strangers.

[BookstoreEscapee]

In my opinion, b/c he's a boy.

I agree. My brother got away with more than I did, even when I was an adult ("Where are you going?" "Out." ...yeah, I couldn't get away with that.) But I didn't have a curfew or anything once I turned 18; the only issue was that I was sharing a car with my mom, so while I didn't have to ask "permission" I did have to coordinate. But I was expected to call if I was going to be especially late or anything like that.

There's always a way to find counseling without having to pay an arm and a leg for it, or even exceeding your budget. Try your school; put up notices; do whatever it takes.

Here's what will come as a strange suggestion--contact a domestic violence hotline or shelter for help.

I don't think it's a strange suggestion. They should be able to give referrals to other more appropriate services, if nothing else. Do you have a YMCA nearby? You might look into them for counseling services. By the way, if you looked for counseling through work, there are laws about confidentiality. Your manager/coworkers should have no reason to know.

The pattern here is clear. You hate the way your life is going, you want it to change, but when suggestions are made, you shoot them down. You're so used to your life the way that it is, that any ideas for change - even if it doesn't seem that way - are threatening, because they mean that you're changing your comfort zone.

I've spent years in this pattern. I wasn't in any kind of abusive situation, but I was miserable and I just didn't know where to start to change it, and I was so mired in the status quo that the thought of doing something was paralyzing. (Still working on that, but now, at 34, I've been out of my parents' house for 2 1/2 years and I plan to keep it that way.)

Yes. But I can't get past the fact that change = time and $$$. Even if counseling is for free or near free, I have next to neither. I will have time in the next few weeks though. Right this second, I don't have any.

I'm graduating in a few weeks

So focus on finishing school, right now. Then focus on finding a better-paying job. Most schools have some kind of career counseling office. Start there.

This is how I feel in the end: Guilty.... Guilty...; guilty..., guilty..., guilty...; guilty...; guilty...; guilty...; guilty...guilty...; and extremely guilty for even thinking that I might be abused. It doesn't even feel like abuse. How can a man who's helping me pay for college, bought me flowers for Valentine's, helped me pay for new clothes and asthma medication and who caters to my every whim POSSIBLY be abusive?

Most abusers aren't monsters 24/7. That's why people stick around in their lives (and the abuser knows it). "Well, he's not all bad. See? He did this and that good/nice/helpful thing." It doesn't feel like abuse because presumably you've lived with it for 21 years. You don't know what it's like to not live with it.

Why should I live for free on the government when I can try to pay for my own stuff?

You can use it for its intended purpose - a short term solution to help you get on your feet. When you can pay for your own stuff you don't use it any more. If it makes you feel better, when you are in a position to do so, you can volunteer somewhere and "pay it forward."