Dog Food/Weight Question

[jedimaster91]

Today I bought what should be the last bag of puppy food (YAY!!) since Tag turns one at the end of October. So the next time I need to buy him dog food, I'll get the big boy food and start the transition.

My question is this: what constitues a "large breed" dog, and is large breed dog food really any better than "regular" dog food? I just weighed the brute and he's now 66lbs; about 15lbs heavier than I thought he was (no wonder my arm gets sore after I take his misbehaved self for a walk ). For the record, I have been feeding him large breed puppy food since it was recommended by the humane society to do so, and it wasn't any more expensive than the regular stuff.

His weight class presents another problem. My flea/tick/heartworm prevention goes up to 50lbs. Should I get the next size up? And if I do, will it be too strong for Ziggy who only weighs 36lbs? Or can I get away with the 50lb limit since he's not *that* much off?

What it boils down to is I really can't afford to get two different kinds of dog food and two sets of parasite prevention. Possibly one or the other, but not both. Yeah, we probably should have thought about that before we brought Tag home. But we weren't sure how big he was going to get since supposedly he's a mixed breed. The humane society said coonhound/beagle mix, and conceivably he could have been more beagle-sized than coonhound-sized. And this was when I was guaranteed at least one day a week at work, so we did actually have the money when we got him.

The more I look at Tag, the more I think he's a foxhound instead of a coonhound. He's definitely got a more beagle-like face and he's tall and leggy. But he really doesn't seem to have the coonhound build. Anyone know of a way to find out for sure and how much it would cost?

I'd be remiss if I didn't include a pic, so here ya go:

[MaggieTheCat]

Regarding flea and tick medication: I would talk to your vet about it. I'll share my experience with flea and tick meds with you, but I am not a vet, and we have cats, not dogs, so double check with your vet before making any decisions.

We give the cats Revolution once a month. The vet gave us a free kitten dose when we got our littlest boy a few months ago, and we asked if we could buy a box of the kitten formula for him so he could continue on with it until he was the right age/weight to go to the adult formula. Vet said it wasn't necessary. He said just to give the kitten the adult formula after we used the initial kitten dose the first month. Kitten was about 6 weeks when we got him and used the kitten dose, so he was 10 weeks and probably around 2.5-3lbs when we started him on the adult formula (it says the cat should weigh at least 5.1lbs for the formula we started giving him, so he was definitely underweight according to the label, but the vet said that was fine.)

I'd also check with the vet regarding the large breed sizes and foods and whatnot, or you could probably google it and get some good articles from vet-related websites.

[Kyree]

The flea/tick/heartworm prevention stuff. You need to buy separate weight classes. Giving your 36lb dog the 50+ stuff can kill it - don't risk it. And yes, your bigger dog does need the 50lb+ otherwise it won't work as well You could still be getting fleas and he would still be at risk of heartworm.

I have a 47lb border collie, and my vet told me that until the scale says 50, the over 50lb stuff would not be safe. You have to realize that 15lbs to a dog is a LOT more then 15lbs to a person. For a 30 pound dog, 1 pound of weight is equal to 4 pounds for us. So, if you weighed 150 pounds, and something said you had to weight 200 to use it, would you feel safe?

As for dog food, honestly don't worry about "large breed" food. It's kind of a gimick for dog food companies. Just focus on researching a brand of quality dog food instead. Sadly, a lot of brands you would think are good quality in fact are not (Like Iams, Purina, or Science Diet.) If you'd like to know more about finding a decent dog food without burning deep holes in your pocket, talk to Saydrah, or me. (She's the one who taught me)

[jedimaster91]

The flea/tick/heartworm prevention stuff. You need to buy separate weight classes.

That's what the vet said. I expected as much. Dangit, that stuff ain't cheap, yunno? -_-

I have a 47lb border collie, and my vet told me that until the scale says 50, the over 50lb stuff would not be safe.

With a person, I would probably fudge that small of a weight difference, especially if it's an IV medication and some if it is going to remain in the tubing/needle. But with a dog I would be hesitant unless a vet said it was ok.

Sadly, a lot of brands you would think are good quality in fact are not (Like Iams, Purina, or Science Diet.) If you'd like to know more about finding a decent dog food without burning deep holes in your pocket, talk to Saydrah, or me. (She's the one who taught me)

I've been feeding my dogs Purina One for a long time and they are healthy, energetic, and have shiny coats and good teeth. I did quite a bit of research before choosing that particular brand. My husband thinks I'm nuts sometimes when I'm looking at the ingredients list. Actually, PetSmart just released their own brand of dog food that at first glance looks pretty good. And Science Diet smells bad. I don't think Tag liked it at all. He's much more excited about his food now that he's eating something different.

Although, I am curious what else I could be looking for. Especially if it saves me a few bucks.

[csquared]

Whether you are using the same dosage on both or different dosages for each, your going to buy the same "quantity" of the meds. For example, my dog's flee & worm treatments come in a six pack/six months. You would either buy one every three months or two every six. Of course the 50lb+ will be a little more expensive.

To make it less punishing, try to stagger the purchases. Buy Ziggy's meds in January and July. Buy Tag's in April & October.

[Kyree]

There's a pet forum that I used to frequent that has a ton of good info about pet nutrition. Unfortunately you have to pay for an account there. I'm quoting this from them for you, to read up about it.

The food your pet eats effects many, many parts of his life. Lots of problems come from improper diet and can be solved by very simple changes. Does Mittens ich constantly and have lots of dander? Probably food-related. Has Sparky suddenly sprayed the dining room with lots of liquid love? Could be food-related. Does Fido has the most rank, paint-peelin bowel movements? Yeah, that's food-related. And when you think about it, it makes sense. All living things get what they need to survive from what they eat, and if what they're eating contains little or none of the essential ingredients for a proper diet, health problems are bound to arise. This simple guide will help you keep your pet happy and healthy, and hopefully prevent you from having to take unneeded, additional trips to the vet office.

First the basics -
It doesn't get much more basic than ingredients. This is the make-up of foods, and more often than not, the root of many allergies and health problems in lower-quality diets. When it comes to shopping for pet foods, the first thing you should do is flip the bag over and find the nutritional information. If you see 'Corn' or 'By-Product' as one of the first ingredients, then you're off to a bad start.

Here's a list of ingredients to AVOID -

Corn - It's undigestable! This is used as a cheap filler for almost all dog and cat foods! This has almost no nutritional value, and passes straight through your pet, coming out as additional waste. Ontop of that, it's a very common allergen in dogs and cats!

By-Product- Some by-products are worse than others, but all by-products are an unreliable source of meat protein. You never really know what's in by-product meal, but it can range from diseased livestock, horse remains, roadkill, euthanised animals from local shelters and 4-d meats (all seen in meat by-product meal) to unfiltered intestinal tracts, feathers, brains, feet and waste (poultry by-product meal). Some say that by-products aren't all bad. Why? Well because an animal would eat all that in the wild, right?! Nope, not necessarily. By-products can contain high traces of chemicals used in euthanasia (such as phenobarbital), as well as meat rendered but still tainted with poisons and deadly bacteria. In the wild, most animals would never encounter these things, and would probably die if they did. The 'filler' that the animals would gain in the wild from eating other animals can be replaced with much cleaner, healthier, and safer ingredients.

Peanut Hulls, Mill Run - This is essentially what they sweep off the floor from the processing plants. It's literally the hulls of peanuts, scraps from trees (including bark), and whatever else employees happend to drop on the floor that day. Science Diet will tell you it's fibre! Unfortunetly, we really don't have the slightest idea what's in the 'mill run' that day.

Wheat, Wheat Gluten - Another allergen, wheat and wheat gluten is starting to pop up in all the wrong places. It has the same basic problems as corn, and is used frequently as a filler, binder and sweetener.


And here's a list of ingredients look for -

Whole meats (i.e Chicken, Turkey, Bison, Venison) - You're getting exactly what it says you're getting. Whole meats, usually quality cuts of whatever is listed. This is meat alone, contains no internal organs, no mystery chemicals. Generally the best quality meat you can get in pet food. They're easier to digest than the 'meals' (ie, chicken meal), but usually come hand-in-hand with at least one 'meal' for a more complete diet.

Fruits and Vegetables - Such as fresh blueberries (a natural antitoxidant!), fresh apples (tasty and healthy!), sweet potatoes (reliable source of fibre, though doesn't agree with all dog's tummies). Again, you're getting what it says, these are fruits and vegetables ground up in the food. This is the source of fibre and plant material that a dog or cat would normally be getting from eating the stomach of prey in the wild. It's carefully balanced in premium foods, and is generally not a main ingredient.

Meals - Preferably seen alongside their 'whole meat' counterpart, chicken meal, fish meal, turkey meal is the dehydrated 'whole' product. It contains organs and bone and is good for adding calcium to the food. It's a bit harder to digest than whole meats, but is far cleaner and safer than 'by-product'.

Oatmeal and Fish/Flaxseed Oils - Oats and oatmeal are highly digestible and good for soothing upset bellies. These ingredients are frequently found in higher volume in sensitive-stomach formulas and are included in several ultra premium foods. Certain oils, such as flaxseed oil, are great for the skin and coat. Fish oils, especially salmon, also aid in skin/coat care as well as digestion. Not all oils are good though - corn and soy oils can cause allergic reactions just like their whole counterparts and should be avoided.

Brand Name Foods - The Good, The Bad, and the 'Oh God, you're dog's been eating this and is still ALIVE?!'

And I'm not kidding either and I'll explain why.

Some of those nasty ingredients listed in the previous post can lead to serious health problems and even death (in worst-case scenarios). Not too long ago, Diamond had to recall large quantities of their dog food for extremely high aflotoxin content that killed dozens of dogs. Aflotoxin comes from corn, one of the ingredients to avoid in your doggy healthcare plan. Another problem that can occur in dog and cat foods with high sugar-content is diabetes. Yep, your critter could be getting insulin shots, from you, for the rest of its life. My boyfriend's mothers cats are all becoming diabetic, and she still doesn't understand why.

Here's a list of DOG foods and the things you should know about them -


Ultra Premium
Merrick / Merrick 'Before Grains'
Taste of the Wild
TimberWolf Organics
Wellness
Prarie / Instinct
Innova / Innova Evo / Evo / Ancestral
Orijen
Weruva

All these foods contain whole meats, fruits, vegetables, and often cater to sensitive stomachs and unusual allergies. These foods all have a wide range of flavours including bison, venison, salmon and trout, as well as chicken and turkey for the less fancy Many of these brands have come out with Grain-Free varieties of their original formulas, especially in canned foods. There's NO by-product, corn, wheat or mill runs in any of these foods. They are available at Petco (for Solid Gold), Canine Commissary (all three), or Pet Supplies Plus (all three).

Premium
Chicken Soup
Natural Balance
Blue Buffalo
Solid Gold
Canidae
Pinnacle
Addiction

Admittedly, I'm hesitant to put Nutro on this list, as it DOES contain Corn and Corn-Meal. However, it's also a decent enough in-between from the 'Acceptable' to the 'Premium' foods. Chicken Soup and Natural Balance have the same no by-product, no-corn policy and are excellent foods as well. They don't have the lavish flavour choices of Ultra Premium foods, and tend to be more grain-heavy, but cater to some very picky critters. Natural Balance has a Potato and Duck for dogs allergic to chicken, and many of these brands are coming out with completely 'Grain Free' options and 95% meat-type canned foods. These are all easily available at your local Petco, and Blue Buffalo can be found at Petsmart. Removed Nutro from list due to large number of consumers reporting contaminated bags.- Lioness

Acceptable
Iams
Purina
Diamond
Eagle Pack
Eukanuba
Royal Canin

I hate to have to put Eagle Pack on here, but with the recent increase in corn on their ingredient list, they're falling fast. These are foods that're... well, they're okay. I guess. They contain corn and/or by-products, are generally cheaper and are available at grocery stores. This stuff wont necessarily KILL your dog (despite the Diamond mass-death thing earlier this year), but it's certainly not the best. If your vet tells you to buy this stuff, punch him.

Horrid
Alpo
Pedigree
Regular Science Diet (non-perscription)
Mainstay
Kibbles and Bits
Good Day Chunks

This is the worst of the worst. Usually no whole meats, or in the case of 'Good Day' no meat AT ALL. 90% of these foods are composed of corn, wheat, mill runs, followed by steamed bone-meal and by-product meal. Unfortunetly, a majority of the foods you'll see available to the public are this grade, and can lead to many health problems. Also, these foods are GREASY, they make your dog's coat oil and often smelly, and make waste large, frequent, and often nasty-smelling. Science Diet I'm probably opening a can of worms with. But seriously, next time you have a bag at your finger tips, especially Adult Maintanence, just look at it.

Edit: A note about Science Diet - If your vet has put your dog on a perscription Science Diet in relation to a medical issue (such as kidney or urinary problems), my suggestion is to heed his advice. Regular Science Diet is terrible for a day-to-day use, but these perscription formulas may be what saves your pet's life.

Very long, but very informative!

[Whiskey]

I feed my animals Evo. I might switch my beasts to Wellness Core if my store starts carrying it. I wouldn't feed purina to my animals ever.

[MaggieTheCat]

We feed two of our three cats Chicken Soup for the Cat Lover's Soul dry food. They both love it. Our girl likes it too, but she's on a Royal Canin prescription diet because she has kidney disease. It's not great but it's okay...it's better than non-RX Royal Canin. We also keep a variety of canned foods around for all three cats to have as treats/variety once in a while. Among others, I recognize Merrick, Taste of the Wild, Wellness, Innova, and Natural Balance (they REALLY like the Natural Balance chicken formula.) None of it is very expensive. I think a 4lb bag of the dry Chicken Soup food is around $20 or $22. A case of large (they're probably about 6oz) cans of Natural Balance is around $24 or 26. The stuff we can get in the grocery store is cheaper by a few cents but not that much, and the cats love the premium stuff and it's better for them. We used to feed the one cat dry Science Diet (the regular, not prescription) and he loved it, but then I looked at the ingredient list and was horrified. That's when I told my husband we had to switch to something else...it took a while to convince Ash to eat the Chicken Soup. When he gets attached to a food, he doesn't like to let it go. But the Chicken Soup is cheaper than Science Diet anyway. I think Science Diet was a good $5-10 more than Chicken Soup for a smaller sized bag.

[Kyree]

I personally feed my dogs Taste of the Wild. Here it's about $40 for a 30lb bag. I mix a little bit of diamond into it to make it last longer (40lb bag for $28). I know diamond isn't the best, but like I said, it's mixed with TOTW

They may be more pricey up front, but once your dogs are used to it, they will not have to eat as much to gain the nutrients they need. They will poop less, it will be less stinky, and their gas will be less horrid.

My dog Callie used to eat 4-4 1/2 cups of food a day, she now eats 3-3 1/2 and is staying at a healthy weight after almost a year of being on it. My lab Jokes eats 2 1/2c daily. He's at about 65 pounds and is at a healthy weight for his size.

[RetailWorkhorse]

We fed KC (while she was alive) a brand called Hundenflocken and Little-Fat-PITA-Cat was eating Katzenflocken (until I read the ingredient list and told Mom that PITA-Cat was allergic to Lamb, which was why she was sick all the time). Both are by Solid Gold.

EQ will likely be switching her fuzzy-butt, Carmen, to a rawfood diet in the coming months if I can't find the Hundenflocken for her.

Kulkulkan (aka Monster) will be getting the Hundenflocken when I bring her home.

[jedimaster91]

I wouldn't feed purina to my animals ever.

Hey, now. It's on the acceptable list and my dogs are healthy and never had any problems with it. At least I know better than to feed them Kibbles 'n Bits or Alpo.


Thanks for the info, Kyree (and Saydrah if you ever wander in here ). There are several of those brands I can't get in my area and it looks like PetSmart only carries Wellness and Blue Buffalo. There's a local chain that carries a bunch of them, but I don't like going to the one closest to me because they sell sick birds. But for my babies, I'll fight east end traffic and go to the other one. Gorram dogs are going to be eating better than I do.

Anyone know about how many cups of food one can get out of a 30lb bag of dog food?