Trying to Solve a Cipher

[LillFilly]

And it's a doozy! It's a message in a game with this note that's supposed to lead us to a location where we speak a password. Anybody good with puzzles?

(This is the exact way it's written)

I must be dead; Your hand I'd guess?
Death has opened my final clash;
A hoard is yours, just pass this test;
Take too long, and the chance will pass

32-1-12-26-7-2-5-20-5-1-26-11-7-
25-21-16-5-7-25-26-1-24-15-12-26-7-
3-30-24-26-1-12-20;

10-24-21-30-22-7-32-12-26-11-12-20-7-1-7-
3-12-24-3-15-5-7-21-6-7-21-20-5;

25-22-5-1-14-7-26-21-10-5-26-11-5-24-7-
26-11-5-7-22-11-24-1-25-5-7-25-21-7-
3-5-24-26-1-12-20;

30-26-26-5-24-7-12-26-7-6-1-15-25-5-7-
1-20-4-7-1-15-15-7-2-5-7-4-21-20-5;

"10-12-31-5-7-30-25-7-21-30-24-7-
24-5-16-30-20-5-24-1-26-12-21-20"

If anything I'm trying to find a clue to solve it; It can't be plain substitution because the numbers go above 26.

[terakhan]

1. If that is verbatim, it would seem your password/phrase is in that last line.
2. Don't just write off a substitution because of the numbers. There are a few numbers in that mess that are missing, allowing for a slightly off-pattern substitution.
3. If its IN a game, and not just a puzzle from your friends, solving it for others will be harder, as we won't be able to pick out locations names from gibberish, necessarily.

Won't stop me from trying though...

Working it as a plain substitution, it would appear 7 is your candidate for E, as the most common letter in the English language.

[Jester]

I've solved it.

No, seriously, I have. It's simple, but with a devious twist.

It's almost a straight substitution, but one of the numbers (7) doesn't stand for a letter at all, but a space. And due to that, the next three numbers available need to be bumped down one.

Allow me to elaborate. I switched out all the numbers for letters, in order. 1 became A, 2 became B, etc. Where a number was missing, I just went to the next number. This gave me the answer, almost. The problem was 7, or G in my new version. I quickly recognized that it was there simply as a word break, or space. And the next three letters, 10, 11, and 12, instead of standing for H, I, and J, stood for G, H, and I. So, in my new version, H became G, I became H, and J became I.

And thus you get:

W-A-I-T -G- B-E-N-E-A-T-H -G-
S-O-M-E -G- S-T-A-R-L-I-T -G-
C-U-R-T-A-I-N;

G-R-O-U-P -G- W-I-T-H-I-N -G- A -G-
C-I-R-C-L-E -G- O-F -G- O-N-E;

S-P-E-A-K -G- T-O-G-E-T-H-E-R -G-
T-H-E -G- P-H-R-A-S-E -G- S-O -G-
C-E-R-T-A-I-N;

U-T-T-E-R -G- I-T -G- F-A-L-S-E -G-
A-N-D -G- A-L-L -G- B-E -G- D-O-N-E;

"G-I-V-E -G- U-S -G- O-U-R -G-
R-E-M-U-N-E-R-A-T-I-O-N"

Or more simply:

Wait beneath some starlit curtain;
Group within a circle of one;
Speak together the phrase so certain;
Utter it false and all be done;
"Give us our remuneration."

Though I think they may have screwed up, as the last word might actually be "renumeration," unless the way it is here makes sense to you.

Frankly, none of it makes sense to me, but then, I am not playing the game.

What can I say? I've been doing cryptograms since I was 6. For those paying attention, that means since 1976, or almost 35 years.

I figured the game designers weren't going to make it THAT tough.

[LillFilly]

I get the substitution up until 7, and that 7 is a space and G, but, for example, how did 32 become W? And what led you to after 7 that 10,11, 12 were H, I, J? I don't understand the 'bump down one' idea I guess; in my mind for example 20, which you say is W, would be a 14 I would have thought?

[Jester]

I'll try to walk you through it as best I can.

First of all, I did not know it was a straight substitution code. But I thought it might be, and figured I would work better with numbers than letters. And I figured it might be a double substitution, i.e., standard cryptogram with one letter standing for another, and then with a number standing for each new letter. Example not from the cipher: 73 stood for W which in turn stood for E. Make sense?

So to see what I could do with it, I decided to substitute letters for the numbers. I realized that there were some numbers missing--clearly an intentional diversion by the programmers--so I went through and determined which numbers were missing. Once I did that, I went through and substituted letters for the numbers that were there, i.e., A for 1, B for 2, etc. When there was no number (like, say, 13), I just went on to the next number that was there and continued. Example (again, not from the actual cipher): "Okay, I'll replace 13 with N, but there is no 14, so I'll replace 15 with O."

As I went through it, I started to see patterns forming, but not the patterns I expected. I expected to see a standard cryptogram taking shape, with familiar word and letter patterns emerging, but instead I started to see actual words forming, with some oddities, such as the letter G being just randomly thrown in places, or so it seemed at first.

Once I was done with the substitution, I recognized that G (originally 7) was not a letter at all, but a space between words. A rather devious diversion by the authors. Putting the spaces where they went, the message was almost done. But where you would expect to see and I, there was a J. Where you would expect to see a G, there was an H. And I realized what the authors had done. Since 7 (G) was a space, not a letter, the next number, 10, which would have normally been an H, was now a G. 11, instead of being I, was H. And 12, instead of being J, was I.

Why they did that with those three letters, I don't know. My guess is that it was an attempt at throwing people off by messing with word patterns. The 7 was clever, the 10, 11, and 12 were just a mild curveball.

Personally, I think it would have been tougher for most people if, instead of what they did do, they did what I originally thought they did, i.e., a double substitution cryptogram.

I don't know if this makes sense (I'm not the clearest at 8:30 in the morning), but for someone who's been doing cryptos virtually their whole life, this was a challenge, but not the most challenging one I've seen. Took me about a half hour or so, most of that time just figuring out what numbers were missing and then substituting each letter for its corresponding number.

I hope I don't come off as condescending here...this is just something I have a talent for and tons of experience with. (I have been known to solve some cryptograms in about a minute or two, much to the consternation of my friends and co-workers.)

In any case, I hope this helps with your game. And for those of you shopping for me for Christmas or my birthday, books of cryptograms are always welcome.

[Jester]

I forgot one other thing I did.

As I was doing the substitution and it looked like actual words were appearing, I made a conscious decision to skip Q. If it had been a double substitution as I originally suspected, then it wouldn't have mattered if I used Q, as I was just going to go re-sub everything in the new crypto, but if these actually were words forming, I was guessing that Q was probably not involved, since there were only actually 21 letters used in total. As it turned out, my guess was right, but even if I had used Q, I might still have figured out to "back it down one," as it were, i.e., making the Q's into R's, making the R's into S's, and so on, as I did with the 7/G/space situation.

Basically, the authors did not assign a number to Q, either forgetting about it since it wasn't in the unencrypted phrase, or intentionally throwing another diversion into the mix.

[Rapscallion]

Though I think they may have screwed up, as the last word might actually be "renumeration," unless the way it is here makes sense to you.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/remuneration

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dicti...0&t=1299253036

Rapscallion

[LillFilly]

I think I see what you did now; at least I have a much better idea, thank you! As for Remuneration, I believe that's the word they meant to use; wage or salary, implying that the searchers are owed something.

My only experience with these things is reading the da vinci code books; except those seemed easier to me! I think I might be better with symbols than numbers; go figure!

[Chromatix]

I must be dead; Your hand I'd guess?

If I was thinking cryptically, I would consider the Dead Hand system that the USSR set up in the Cold War. In short, if the missile silos stopped getting "I'm alive" signals from the command centres, they would automatically fire at predetermined targets. A similar system on a much smaller scale is also used by hijackers - if he releases the switch because he is killed or knocked out, the bomb will go off.

So that line could be a reference to a Cold War relic of some kind.

[Jester]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/remuneration

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dicti...0&t=1299253036

As for Remuneration, I believe that's the word they meant to use; wage or salary, implying that the searchers are owed something.

As I've said here many times, I reserve the right to be completely and even embarrassingly wrong....as apparently, I was here.

I think I see what you did now; at least I have a much better idea, thank you!

No problem!

I think I might be better with symbols than numbers; go figure!

I am definitely better with letters than numbers, which is how I tried my original substitution code.

A similar system on a much smaller scale is also used by hijackers - if he releases the switch because he is killed or knocked out, the bomb will go off.

What they call a "dead man's switch."

[Chromatix]

True, though I normally think of a deadman as being part of a fail-safe system rather than a fail-deadly one.

[wolfie]

True, though I normally think of a deadman as being part of a fail-safe system rather than a fail-deadly one.

But looking at it from the terrorist's point of view, "safe" means that his threat to kill the hostages if the police/military try to rescue them gets carried out, even if he's shot before he realizes the rescue attempt is underway.

[tollbaby]

Jester, you are bloody brilliant.

[RayvenQ]

What game is it? just to help put it into context, I mean, i get the general gist of it, but to apply it, it needs context..

[Jester]

Jester, you are bloody brilliant.

I'm not gonna lie...I actually impressed myself on that one.