I don't know what to do...

[YumeIshimaru]

background - My brother has been doing things for a long while to attempt to straighten and better the relationship between my father and my sister & I. I don't think he ever fully got over when our family unit got broken apart due to my mom standing up for herself and my dad deciding he didn't like that, resulting in him divorcing her. The main reason I have any interactions with the man at this point is because of my younger brother.

For more background on my father go here - Link


I was talking about my dad with my brother recently and found out that my brother had apologized to him for any wrong doings, not expecting anything back but using it as his way of moving forward. This however opened a big ol' can of worms as when my sister was attempting to set up time to walk the dog, that he got for her and was more his and her dog, and he started to demand that she apologize for the things she did to him.

She apologized in a way he did like which was 'I'm sorry for the things that happened in the past, but I would like to move forward'. Apparently he want a direct apology for any sin he felt she committed. He promptly told her after this that she needed to learn how to apologize from my younger brother (her older brother).

My brother told me that to get over my problems with my dad I needed to apologize to him. But I don't see why I should when I won't get an apology back. I do understand in certain situations that you should apologize without expecting one in return but I don't think this is one. Especially with how his ego soared with my brother's apology.

Another thing is I'd have a hard time apologizing because It's hard to forgive the things he has done to me. How he would bring me into his room on a daily basis and scream and yell at me, telling me I didn't want to do anything because I was fat and lazy; him letting his girlfriend be verbally abusive to me when I didn't move to another room fast enough; the daily emotional, mental and verbal abuse he put me through, going as far as trying to get my friends to side with him/try to get them to bad mouth me when I was not in hearing range.

It also doesn't help that I have this vivid memory of someone sneaking into my room when I was a kid and touching me, It's too real to be a dream as even when I commonly remembered my dreams, they weren't that vivid. I told my father about it and he off handily blamed my uncle on my mom's side. It wasn't until later that I realized the reaction was off because he absolutely and utterly hated that uncle and would have loved a reason to go off and attack him. Then last year I found out from my older half sister that my father sexually harassed her, several different times. Once in front of friends and once when she was sick.

It's sad but part of me wants to have a good relationship with my dad but I know my emotional and mental health wouldn't be able to handle it if I gave in and apologized and he told me all of my faults and how much I wronged him. Also I doubt my self esteem would be able to recover if it was smashed to pieces again.

[KiaKat]

From what you say here, you don't owe an apology to him.

He owes an apology to you. And then some.

Your brother's relationship with your father is not yours. Neither is your sister's. You are not beholden to your siblings to make amends with someone who has treated you poorly.

The status of your relationship with your father is not their business. Let them do what they want - You are not obligated to join in on their mea culpas.

[MaggieTheCat]

I firmly believe that just because someone is a blood relative of yours, does not mean you have to like or accept them. If your father was not related to you, or was even more distantly related to you (an uncle or cousin) would you have anything at all to do with him? Would you even be considering apologizing or talking to him again? I am thinking the answer is, likely not. So why associate with him because he is your father? Just because he is your father? That is a lousy excuse, in my opinion.

What does your brother (and father) think you have to apologize for? Does your brother know all the things your father did to you? If I were in your shoes, I would only consider having a relationship with the man if he had somehow changed drastically and I could reasonably expect a sincere apology for what he did and said to you in the past. It does not sound like he's changed and it doesn't sound like you expect an apology from him, so why should you be the one to offer the olive branch?

My husband's parents got divorced when he was a teenager. His father promptly took off and my husband has not talked to him since (over 15 years ago.) His father made no effort to keep in touch or support my husband in any way. He never sent cards or made phone calls or showed up to my husband's graduation ceremonies. My husband's sister has a relationship with their father today, because SHE made the effort to get back in touch with him. She contacted him and somehow made peace and now they have a good relationship. She has told us, numerous times, "Dad sure would like to have a relationship with (husband), it would be really nice if you guys would call or write him!"

Excuse me? Why should we, or rather my husband be the one to take the first step toward mending this relationship? My husband wants nothing to do with his father; even when his parents were married, his father was never home and spent very little time with his family. Then when they separated, he took off and was never heard from again. If he wants a relationship with his son, I firmly believe it is his responsibility to take the first step in mending the damage that he has done.

I see similarities in your situation. I did not read the background info that you linked to so maybe there are faults on both sides, but from what it sounds like, you and your siblings and mother are hardly the ones (or, only ones) to blame in your family getting separated. If anyone should apologize, it should be everyone, not just one person taking on the blame.

[BlaqueKatt]

My brother told me that to get over my problems with my dad I needed to apologize to him. But I don't see why I should when I won't get an apology back. I do understand in certain situations that you should apologize without expecting one in return but I don't think this is one. Especially with how his ego soared with my brother's apology.

Abusive people tend to feel vindicated when they can play the "victim", it helps them justify the abuse in a manner of "see I did nothing wrong, they wronged me and I only did what I did because of their wrong actions." Apologizing is a form of enabling. Look at the situation of a battered spouse.(because either party in a relationship can be an abuser I will use the generic term of partner a and partner b)

Partner a does laundry and accidentally shrinks partner b's favorite shirt. Partner b reacts with verbal and physical abuse. Partner a apologizes for damaging the shirt, now partner b feels their actions were somehow "justified", and partner a feels they probably deserved it because partner b wouldn't hurt them for no reason, right?

there are worlds of difference between forgiveness and apology, and they do not have to coexist. I have forgiven my mother, for myself(she doesn't know this as she believes she never did anything wrong*), so I am not carrying the negative emotions around all the time, she has never apologized. My sister has apologized to my mother, but my mother has not forgiven her for anything. And a person should NEVER feel they have to apologize to anyone, it should be done out of genuine desire to make amends, not out of reactionary obligation. Talking to someone in a professional capacity, if at all possible, might be a good idea for you and possibly your siblings.

Your brother does not dictate your relationships with others, nor does he have any say in your feelings, that is up to you+, and doing something merely to "keep the peace" as it were, is an almost sure fire trip down the road to resentment and possible self-loathing-yes, I speak from experience on that one. Ask yourself if you feel a further relationship with your father has any sort of long-term benefit for you in any manner, only you can answer that, and answer it honestly, don't play the "wishing game". I wish I had a better relationship so I could have one of those Kodak movie moments, not going to happen, as a person who refuses to see the damage they caused to the relationship and expects YOU to apologize for it, is not likely to change the way they treat you, after all, they can treat you badly and you'll take the blame.


*my mother was a drunk, and now has severe schitzotypical tendencies(she's pretty close to tinfoil hat territory in some things) due to brain damage caused by vitamin B12 deficiency, which is common in drunks.

+ Personally I would suggest thinking about letting go of the past, but ONLY for your own emotional well being, harboring resentment can be very emotionally draining. But that being said, letting go of the past hurt does not mean you need in any way open yourself up to future hurt from the same person.

[Jester]

You absolutely should not apologize to him, as you did nothing wrong, and did nothing to wrong him.

If you want to FORGIVE him for his transgressions, that is up to you, and is something you should think about and consider. If you do find it in your heart to forgive him, then do so, and leave the ball in your court. If you can't find it in your heart to forgive him, then don't. Never forgive someone if you are not fully committed to doing so. I myself am not a very forgiving person, but I do not begrudge people who can find it in themselves to do that which I cannot.

If you do decide to forgive him, what happens next is his call. But whatever he does, your reaction to it is your call. Don't let him dictate what happens, in any case. Take control of the situation and YOU decide what is best for YOU.

[Seshat]

This is one of the few times when I disagree with Jester.

Forgiving someone - forgiving them in your own heart, not necessarily letting them know they're forgiven - is something you do for yourself, for your own well-being.

Carrying the hurt is the mental equivalent of keeping an open wound open - it does nothing for your well-being, your health.


I am not talking about 'turn the other cheek' and allow him to hit you again. No, there's a difference between forgiveness and allowing yourself to be a doormat.

I'm also not saying you should forget.

But forgiveness allows you to not dwell on a hurt, not pick at the scar, not keep it open and bleeding. Forgiveness allows you to say the past is the past.

In a sense, Rafiki in the Lion King had it right. Yes, it hurt - but it's in the past! Look at now, look at tomorrow. Learn from the past, but don't let it control your todays or your tomorrows.

[Andara Bledin]

Well, there's a difference between forgiving and moving on.

You can move on without forgiving.

Moving on is about your own now and future.

Forgiving is about whether or not the person in question has learned at all from their past. If their now is the same as their past, there should not be forgiveness unless they are literally incapable of personal growth.

^-.-^

[Der Cute]

background - My brother has been doing things for a long while to attempt to straighten and better the relationship between my father and my sister & I. .... The main reason I have any interactions with the man at this point is because of my younger brother.

May I ask why your brother is trying to tidy things up with your dad? Does your BROTHER think that "family broke up, logic, needs/should be together again" ?
My thinking/logic on this would be: family broke up. Brother 'wants' together. Brother urges/nudges people to talk again. Family happy. (please note, that's your Brother thinking all that.)

I'd also like to ask: why are YOU letting this happen? If YOU'VE not chosen to speak to someone, why are you even honoring the idea that a 3rd party wants you to hook back up again?
My story: I stopped speaking to my mother and my sister a few years ago. My choice, my reasons. Currently I speak to my dad only. Every time we're talking, he badgers me about "You're family with your sister you NEED to talk to her YOU NEED YOU'RE FAMILY blargle"
He's trying to get ME to do something HE wants. I don't want to do that. I'm not GOING to do that. I'm an adult, not a kid.

So your brother says "Go talk to dad". You've chosen not to until this time. Your brother says "You're sposed to. You SHOULD." You're waffling right now.
You are in charge of yourself, your brain, your behavior. Not Brother. Not the Pope. YOU.
If you don't want to talk to anyone, then you don't.
There are consequences (not huge ass nuclear ones ok) but enough where you'd need to spiff up some assertiveness skills.

My dad "you need to talk to your sister blah blah"
Me: "That's not an option."
Dad: "I said so I'm your Father! Go do that!"
Me: "Sorry, I'm not able to"
The consequence of me: somewhat driving my father away. But he also respects me more (I can see it in other things he does).

What would the possible outcome be if you told your brother to back off? Don't go omg stuff, start small and logical.

What exactly do you want to do with your father? Know he exists and that's it? Speak to him once every 10 years? Once every year? Maintain somewhat steady communication? Cut him totally out and be fine with that? When you can verbalize exactly what you feel, you can speak to your brother with that.
You: "Bro, hey. I've made my decision (don't elaborate)."
Bro: "But I'm trying so hard!!!"
You: "I've said it before, I've made my decision. I gotta go, the house is on fire!!"
Again, just cuz someone tells you to jump a bridge...just cuz your brother wants you to talk to your dad....

All this stuff here^^ Me learning to deal with my dad. I'm trying to relate to you what I've done. You don't have to do a damn thing I'm pointing out here. Because you're in charge of you - just cuz I say it's good doesn't mean it is.

Hugs, and no matter what this isn't easy. More hugs.