WWE Live: Shoplifter Smackdown

[DGoddessChardonnay]

Had an "exciting" afternoon a week ago Thursday:

All three of our managers: Goober, Opie and Gomer (our Grocery Manager) were on duty during the day (a rare occurance in itself) when suddenly we all heard the security call on the PA from one of our cashiers:

"Need all managers up front!"

I poke my head around the corner from the HBA aisle (where I was working backstock) and saw the managers were attempting to apprehend a shoplifter near the entrance. The guy tried to make a run for the door, but Opie and Goober grabbed him and tried to take him down when Gomer came from the opposite side.

Charging at him like a bull, Gomer tackled the shoplifter and knocked him down, at which point Goober and Opie both flung themselves onto the guy to hold him down.

We also had a loss prevention girl in the office, who was on the phone with 911.

Then, we all hear a cashier call out over the PA "Need all male associates up front now!"

We had no other male associates in the store at the time except for one of our meat cutters, who came up front momentarily but by that point, the shoplifter was flat on the ground, arms held out on either side of him to keep him from going into his jacket and whining he couldn't breathe.

Meat cutter grabs up the items that were scattered onto the floor, sets them onto one of the empty register counters and goes back to the market, as the managers had the guy subdued.

Meanwhile, a girl who was shopping with the guy was watching from a few feet away and asking the managers to let the guy up.

Hell no they weren't letting him up. Goober point blank said "No, I'm not letting him up until the police get here."

Guy kept complaining he couldn't breathe. Goober told him pointedly "If you can talk, you can breathe. We're not letting you up."

"If I get hurt, I'll sue the Kitty," guy started threatening.

"Good, go ahead," was Goober's reply.

Meanwhile, I move over to one of the empty registers and was standing with the Scanning Analyst - Rochelle was on the other side of the register and all three of us were almost ready to at the guy's threat. But we didn't - we all decided to be good and watch quietly.

Rochelle told me that she had tried to stop the guy when he walked past the register, but he told her he had a gun, so she backed up into the office, closed the door and called 911 initially. Then, the LP girl (who was also in the office) took the phone and was on the line with the dispatcher while the cops were en route.

Which didn't take long for the first officer to arrive. Less than 5 minutes and the managers were just pulling the guy to his feet as the officer entered the store. Another officer followed a few second later, the shoplifter was handcuffed and taken to the back breakroom for a few mintues.

Less than half an hour later, he was escorted out by both officers into a waiting car for a free ride to the county jail (I heard a short time later he had some outstanding warrants) and the girl was let go.

Which is odd, because I've heard coworkers say that she's been in the store before and stolen merchandise from us and has been previously banned. So why she wasn't given a ride by the boys in black as well, I'm not sure.

But either way, the final score is:

Mayberry Manager Trio: 1
Stupid Shoplifter Duo: 0

Too bad we don't have a videotape of that . . . we'd have worn it out already.

[wolfie]

Rochelle told me that she had tried to stop the guy when he walked past the register, but he told her he had a gun, so she backed up into the office, closed the door and called 911 initially.

As soon as the perp told Rochelle that he had a gun, it went from shoplifting to robbery - and there's a BIG difference between a simple theft (crime against property) and robbery (theft using violence or threat of violence, which makes it a crime against the person).

[Irving Patrick Freleigh]

One of our former managers once slammed a shoplifter's face into the pavement after taking him down hard after a foot chase.

Wish I would've been there to see it.

[NightWatch]

If he threatened to have a gun, why would your managers actually try to physically restrain the guy? Even if he was lying, you have to assume he is telling the truth. Let the guy go, and get his license plate number. A person is worth more then any amount of merchandise he is trying to steal.
I'm glad you didn't get directly involved. I'm also glad everyone is ok.

[lordlundar]

Which is odd, because I've heard coworkers say that she's been in the store before and stolen merchandise from us and has been previously banned. So why she wasn't given a ride by the boys in black as well, I'm not sure.

She wasn't caught with merchandise at the time.

[Difdi]

Taking down a suspected shoplifter is extremely risky in a liability sense. Shopkeeper's Privilege (or whatever it is called in your locale, it varies) is a valid defense against a criminal charge, much like self-defense is -- but to claim the defense, you have to first commit the crime. If you can't prove the suspect actually shoplifted, then you have a problem.

In most places, a store employee (or camera) has to have seen the person take the item and/or conceal it on their person, maintain constant line of sight as the person walks through the store to the exit (what if they pick up an item, you lose line of sight, and while you can't see them, they "misfile" the item on a shelf?), and then watch that suspected shoplifter attempt to leave the store. Losing line of sight for even a second would mean you can't prove they stole anything.

Absent that constant line of sight and an employee eyewitness, it becomes extremely hazardous to try to apprehend a suspected shoplifter. Both from a personal injury standpoint (what if the person resists?) and from a criminal one (if you assault, batter and forcibly detain someone, and they didn't steal anything, you are now guilty of a felony).

This is why, in a lot of stores, only LP personnel are allowed to stop a suspected shoplifter. While stopping a shoplifter may save the store money, it's not worth getting shot, stabbed, punched, sued or convicted of a felony over.

[Irving Patrick Freleigh]

Absent that constant line of sight and an employee eyewitness, it becomes extremely hazardous to try to apprehend a suspected shoplifter. Both from a personal injury standpoint (what if the person resists?) and from a criminal one (if you assault, batter and forcibly detain someone, and they didn't steal anything, you are now guilty of a felony).

Plus the store (and probably the company) will be facing an open-and-shut false arrest lawsuit.

[ravenrose]

But it does seem like in this case they had a valid case. Even though they didn't see the gun, the threat was still there. That being said, they were kinda silly to try to subdue a potentially armed man.

And it seems like it worked out in the store's favor, even without video, in that he was taken away in handcuffs.

[Becks]

Too bad we don't have a videotape of that . . . we'd have worn it out already.

And made extra money by me watching it. (I'd pay to see it. Really.)

[Difdi]

But it does seem like in this case they had a valid case. Even though they didn't see the gun, the threat was still there. That being said, they were kinda silly to try to subdue a potentially armed man.

Unless you're somewhere like the UK or NYC, being armed is not a justification to subdue and detain someone. Someone saying they are armed isn't either. In fact, if you are legally armed, and you are falsely accused of shoplifting then gang tackled by half a dozen people, being outnumbered that badly justifies use of deadly force in self defense.

One of the real problems with accusations of theft, is that innocent people and guilty people often act the same -- because guilty people want to look innocent.

A protestation of innocence is not an admission of guilt. Private citizens do not have authority to forcibly search someone's person or bags, and refusal to allow such a search is not an admission of guilt. Becoming offended at an accusation of theft and walking out is not an admission of guilt.

But all of those are things that both the guilty and the innocent will do. If someone in the store meets all of the legal tests for exercising Shopkeeper's Privilege, and the thief resists, that's one thing. But if you become suspicious, forcibly detain someone, and you're wrong, you have serious problems. Even if you're right, and the guy is a thief, if you don't meet the legal test for the Privilege, you are still a criminal. You and the thief may wind up in jail over it.

And it seems like it worked out in the store's favor, even without video, in that he was taken away in handcuffs.

An arrest is not the same as a conviction. If he's acquitted, he would have grounds to sue the store (and probably win) and/or press criminal charges against the employees (store policy does not trump the law). Even if he's convicted of shoplifting, if the OP's store doesn't meet the legal test for Shopkeeper's Privilege, he may still be able to sue and win.

[nomorecarts]

Difdi-in the US there is a law(that's rarely enforced) that states if while committing a crime you have a gun on you you can get an extra year in jail, even if it stays concealed, you can get 2 years for displaying it, I think it's 5 years for brandishing, and 10 for discharging, but I could be wrong on the last two. it's also a felony to commit any crime while in possession of a firearm if i'm not mistaken