Union crap

[Chromatix]

The Finnish way of union organisation is worth using as a comparison. Somehow, the locals seem to have got most of the benefits of a union system while avoiding most of the drawbacks.

Strikes do happen here, but they are unusual and tend to be justified on some level. It is generally when a particular employer is being exceptionally authoritarian, and appears to be acting contrary to the employees' economic needs. There was a recent case where a major corporation wanted to close down a papermill, in a rural area where the mill was the major employer, but refused to allow the mill to be sold as a going concern.

Instead, the major unions sit down with the major employers on a regular basis and work out a document called a Collective Bargaining Agreement. This CBA then applies industry-wide, and covers things like minimum pay rises on particular dates, general pay structures, and general standards of working conditions. It also details rules for termination procedures.

Employers are of course free to exceed these minimum requirements, and to adjust them for individual employees and unusual circumstances, but the general rules must apply to the workforce as a whole. The CBA is, I imagine, a legally binding contract - on the one hand, the employers promise to abide by these rules, and on the other hand, the employees promise not to go on strike. Thus breaches of the CBA on either side can be handled by fairly conventional laws.

Disputes are commonly handled by arbitration, whereby the employer and the union try to find common ground and avoid disruption. Also in relatively common use is the "work to rule" principle, which is usually enacted when a dispute is in progress but arbitration has not yet failed.

One thing I haven't heard of being used here is the notorious principle of "demarcation". This is where every little task is assigned to a very specific job title, and usually means that an unreasonably large number of employees is required to complete any routine procedure. Unregulated unions have been known to use this as a means of propping up employment rates of their members, at the expense of employers' means to improve efficiency.

As a result, "union" is not a dirty word here.

[Ghengis51]

I'm actually represtented by the same union in both of my jobs (local and state goverment). They're OK at my full-time but I've had issues with them at the center. When i first got the job they had just found out (I think someone finally looked at the contract and complained to the union) that under the part timers contract you could not take off if you didn't have leave, and could only switch if it was the exact same hours. What really stunk about that is we couldn't access our leave until we had worked 975 hours. At 10-16 hours a week that's nearly 1 1/2 years. Luckily that did get changed once people realized how assanine that was.

[cinema guy]

At the cinema and throughout the chain, the projectionists are unionised. The staff, managers and others aren't. The projectionist had a reasonable pay deal negotiated for this year and next. Everyone else got what the company gave them.

[K245five]

I worked for a Unionized store for seven years, and unfortunately it stunk!

The way our labor agreement was set up, only the senior people with the most seniority got any tangible benefit from the Union. Myself and the rest of the people on the low end of the seniority ladder didn't get diddly for the most part. When we DID get something, it was something very little and mostly insignificant. The Senior people got all the vacation time(and the BEST vacation time at that), all the best pay, etc..

I personally got screwed over when a full-time receiving positon opened up. I was the back-up receiver when the main receiver unfortunately had a massive heart attack on the job which sadly led to his death about a month later. Despite the fact that I filled in for him for a month and a half where receiving didn't miss a beat and that I was the only qualified and trained person in the store to do the job, they gave the job to a guy who had been with the company for 24 years to my four years. The SM explained the situation and even apologized to me, but he said that he was bound by the letter of the bargaining agreement. The agreement said that full-time position openings were to be filled by seniority and ability to perform the duties of the position. This guy didn't have the ability to do the job, but his seniority trumped that unfortunately.

Well, this part of the bargaining agreement came back to bite the employees and Mgmt. many times. In this case, this person with 24 years of service never fully got the hang of the job, especially when it came to using a PC to reconcile the bills. Thus, he racked up tons of OT, royally PO'ing the SM because it bloated his payroll. Plus, he called out tons of times because he had a ton of health and emotional issues. Sometimes he was out for weeks at a time. Me and the pricing ladies would have to fix his mistakes frequently, and Corporate Accounting would be on the phone occassionally to question us over a screwed up bill. In short, he was definitely NOT the best person for the job, and wouldn't have even got anywhere NEAR the job had it not been for the Union.

And, we had plenty of "special case" misfit employees who were always getting the Union to bail them out of trouble. One misfit bagger took a row of carts and rammed the truck of another bagger he didn't like. He was sent home and indefinitely suspended, but the Union Steward filed a grievance on his behalf, and the Union got him off with a written warning. Several misfit cashiers made huge errors on register which cost the store lots of money and shrink. They were suspended and busted down to bagger, but the Union got THEM off as well.

So, bottom line, Unions SUCK!!!

[mattm04]

Well, this part of the bargaining agreement came back to bite the employees and Mgmt. many times. In this case, this person with 24 years of service never fully got the hang of the job, especially when it came to using a PC to reconcile the bills. Thus, he racked up tons of OT, royally PO'ing the SM because it bloated his payroll. Plus, he called out tons of times because he had a ton of health and emotional issues. Sometimes he was out for weeks at a time. Me and the pricing ladies would have to fix his mistakes frequently, and Corporate Accounting would be on the phone occassionally to question us over a screwed up bill. In short, he was definitely NOT the best person for the job, and wouldn't have even got anywhere NEAR the job had it not been for the Union.

And, we had plenty of "special case" misfit employees who were always getting the Union to bail them out of trouble. One misfit bagger took a row of carts and rammed the truck of another bagger he didn't like. He was sent home and indefinitely suspended, but the Union Steward filed a grievance on his behalf, and the Union got him off with a written warning. Several misfit cashiers made huge errors on register which cost the store lots of money and shrink. They were suspended and busted down to bagger, but the Union got THEM off as well.

So, bottom line, Unions SUCK!!!

We had one employee, who got caught on camera stealing. He was fired the next day and a Police report made (form some reason no arrest). He wined to the union, who got him his job back, with back pay. About a week later LP caught him stealing again, on tame and in person by several witnesses.

This time we had him arrested and trespassed from the store.

Part of our contract is that the Company must provide the Union with a bulletin board(s) in the break rooms(s) for union stuff. Only the Union can use that board and only that board. The other ones are for company and legal stuff. Our Steward put Union flyers (fro a charity evnet) over OSHA and other legal posters. Our GM called the Union and made someone drive 70 miles, each way to remove them. They were mad at the GM for making them follow the contract, even sending a letter to Corp. on why the GM was un-professional.

[wagegoth]

Unions are just like any organization. Some are awesome, some are full of suck and fail.

Nail on the head.

[PepperElf]

Unions are just like any organization. Some are awesome, some are full of suck and fail.

Very true. There's a bit of strife on both sides here. (Including some interesting drama in the news over mafia-style hits... yeah I wish I was kidding).


I'd harp about the paperwork you had to go thru... but it's kinda similar to what I had to do at work, say X wants to swap duty days with Y...

X and Y have to be able to do the same work, have the same qualifications etc. Both have to run a separate request (yes we had the forms), listing the dates you want to swap. You each have to sign the other person's request as well as your own, and then the duty section leaders for both people have to sign both requests.

sound kinda like what your company asks for?

[Muses_nightmare]

Very true. There's a bit of strife on both sides here. (Including some interesting drama in the news over mafia-style hits... yeah I wish I was kidding).


I'd harp about the paperwork you had to go thru... but it's kinda similar to what I had to do at work, say X wants to swap duty days with Y...

X and Y have to be able to do the same work, have the same qualifications etc. Both have to run a separate request (yes we had the forms), listing the dates you want to swap. You each have to sign the other person's request as well as your own, and then the duty section leaders for both people have to sign both requests.

sound kinda like what your company asks for?

Well not exactly what the company asks for. The only time people can switch shifts, as I understand it, is if they "own" that shift. If you don't own it, you can't give it away. but if you do it's yours to do with as you please, so long as the person you're giving it to can do the same job as you. Plus all the paperwork involved in that of course. Though, over half the staff don't own shifts, so it's a pain in the butt, because if you don't own the shift, it has to go back into the pool and be passed through seniority, so you're not guaranteed that someone will pick up that shift. It doesn't work all that well for short notice stuff. Most people just end up calling in sick.

[QASlave]

Unions are the reason that the Big 3 are going under. Who else would pay an uneducated monkey the money they do to tighten one nut on an assembly line all day long. The foreign manufactures have plants here in the US, but no unions. They make a better product, with higher profit and can ask more for it because of the quality.

The greedy union bastards just screwed themselves out of jobs.

[Hyndis]

Unions are the reason that the Big 3 are going under. Who else would pay an uneducated monkey the money they do to tighten one nut on an assembly line all day long. The foreign manufactures have plants here in the US, but no unions. They make a better product, with higher profit and can ask more for it because of the quality.

The greedy union bastards just screwed themselves out of jobs.

[Broomjockey]

Right then, we just crossed the line into Fratching territory. This is the last warning.

[Anakah]

I think its weird that certain departments in a casino are union and some aren't. Cage? No. We aren't but our dealers are. Its weird.

[Akasa]

My best friend's union is amazing. My best friend is a teacher. This past summer she moved to a new state where she knows no one, has no family, etc. A couple months into the school year she got diagnosed with cancer. They were slow to pay her the shared leave she was entitiled.(people had donated, she had been gone past the required number of days and was approved for shared leave.) Because of the union hounding the principle and the lady in charge of changing her pay codes she finally got paid and some back pay. She wouldn't have gotten it without the union. The union has also drummed up awareness of what she is going through in order to get more people to donate days so she can actually pay her bills. Unfortunately one person can only donate up to 20 days. There was one teacher with over 200 days who wanted to donate them all.