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I intervened in a fight...eeeeep (long but I need to talk)

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  • I intervened in a fight...eeeeep (long but I need to talk)

    Ok guys, something I need to talk about, but can't discuss on my Facebook (you'll see why in a minute). I've said I need to find a new way home, but now I am REALLY not going to be taking the route that goes down Crazy Central Street anymore. Some scary stuff happened yesterday. This was late on a Saturday night in a big city, but still.

    Yesterday I departed my train to head to my bus stop for the final leg of my commute, having left work at 11pm, and I hear someone yelling for the train operator to call security. I look, and a large (not huge but no pixie either) woman who looks like she belongs in a trailer park is beating the crap out of a smaller woman. Punches being thrown, and I think the smaller woman's head was slammed against the side of the train at least once. This was happening outside the train at the stop, not inside the vehicle (relevant in a minute).

    So people are yelling "stop it", others are on their phones calling 911, but when I saw that tiny woman getting beat up on, I just acted. I walked over, pulled out the pepper spray, took careful aim, and blasted the aggressor right in the face. A controlled, less-than-5-second blast, just enough to make her stop the beatdown but not enough (I hope) to cause any permanent problems. I felt totally calm and in control, and my only thought was I wasn't going to let someone get beaten to death in front of me, I had to help. I was even together enough to remember to hold back, not to use the whole can, just do what was necessary.

    THEN I panicked. I walked away, getting yelled at by the aggressor as well as a bystandar that the person being attacked had "started it" and I had no right to do what I did. I hid at the bus shelter, and jumped on the first bus headed home.

    Yes I know I should have stayed. Yes I know I should have talked to the cops. Yes I know I was a witness, but I was scared. I realized i had just used a weapon on another human being for the first time in my life, and I didn't know if my state laws provide "defense of a third party" as a justification for the use of force (I looked it up later, they do.)

    As I boarded my bus, I could hear the aggressor yelling that "she started on me, it's her fault" exc to the cops. An ambulance was also pulling up, so I can only assume both she and her victim got treated.

    Side note: if anyone reading this is ever in a fight, most areas only allow the use of enough force to defend yourself and get out of the situation. You can't keep just beating on someone, even if they threw the first punch, so I assume Trailer Park Queen is going away for a while. The cops were running up as I was walking away, and I know the train driver saw part of the fight, and I think she's required to give a statement, so they'll have a witness despite my being a chicken-shit and booking it. So I hope anyway.

    PS: Please take debates on gun control and other contentious topics to Fratching...just reporting what happened here and wishing I'd handled it differently.
    Last edited by WishfulSpirit; 03-06-2016, 10:09 PM.
    "I try to be curious about everything, even things that don't interest me." -Alex Trebek

  • #2
    Firstly, thank you for being willing to step in when another human being was in trouble. A lot wouldn't.

    Secondly, is there someone in RL you can trust that you can talk about this with? You've been through something traumatic and you need to vent.

    Finally, is there anyone who can help you with the legal implications of what happened? IANAL, and a Brit besides, so I don't know if there are legal implications for pepper spraying someone in a third party's defence then leaving the scene without talking to the cops.
    "It is traditional when asking for help or advice to listen to the answers you receive" - RealUnimportant

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    • #3
      Yeah I can (and did) talk to Hubby and Roomie. I really don't think anything is going to happen, the police were far too busy dealing with Trailer Park Queen. If I get a call from the police I'll talk to them (maybe after talking to an attorney) and tell them that I didn't feel safe staying around (true, I think TPQ had been pepper sprayed before, she could have tried to have a go at me) but I don't think the police know (or care) anything other than "a bystander intervened." I've been watching the local PD webpages and social media, and there's no requests for info about anything related to what happened last night.
      Last edited by WishfulSpirit; 03-06-2016, 11:47 PM.
      "I try to be curious about everything, even things that don't interest me." -Alex Trebek

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      • #4
        I think it was a brave thing to do, and the right thing to do. You don't have any way of knowing who "started it" and the smaller woman was being hurt. I second what Greek Jester says, too.
        When you start at zero, everything's progress.

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        • #5
          Well, u are a hero probably to the one that was being attacked, but I don't think I would've done that. Only if it were a child or elder getting attacked...maybe. Probably I would've called 911 and ran away. You just never know how crazy people can get especially late at night. I would advise you to not walk alone late at night for a while, go with a friend , relative or cw.
          Can't reason with the unreasonable.
          The only thing worse than not getting hired is getting hired.

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          • #6
            There's basically no way I can get anyone to go to and from work with me. It's an hour commute on transit, we don't have a car, and hubby is disabled. None of my coworkers live in the same part of the city as me, and I don't have many friends here yet (plus I don't think they'd want to be out at the times I am, it's either ungodly early or way too late at night). I am just going to take a different route from now on, sticking to the train as much as possible. The train has a lot more security, at least one transit cop per train after dark most of the time, I'll just have to wait a bit longer.
            Last edited by WishfulSpirit; 03-07-2016, 01:31 AM.
            "I try to be curious about everything, even things that don't interest me." -Alex Trebek

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            • #7
              Very brave of you. It is unfortunate that we are so conditioned to not get involved that you have to worry about repercussions from helping put a stop to a bad situation.

              No one is going to really remember what you looked like. Really. The beatee was too busy getting beaten up and the beater was busy dealing with a face full of pepper spray. The rest of bystanders were too busy watching the spectacle.

              Wear a different jacket and maybe a a hat for a couple of weeks and you will be fine.
              There's no such thing as a stupid question... just stupid people.

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              • #8
                If you see someone getting severely beaten, and you feel you can stop the fight, I'd say you're justified in doing so, no matter if the beatee "started it". I don't care the reason why a fight is instigated...once one person is clearly dominating the other one physically, it's time to intervene and put an end to it. Maybe you should have stayed to make a statement to the police (with several witnesses, it'd be easy to determine that you only came along well after the fight started and only interfered to protect the smaller woman), but what you did was totally justified. I hope that the police, even if they need to track you down, will see that and not give you any trouble for it.

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                • #9
                  Self defense does not include revenge. You were perfectly within your rights and responsibilities as a citizen. Aggression does not warrant damage to the point of permanent injury. I could go on, but it is simple. You saw a beatdown, other people (who very probably saw the entire episode) were calling for peace.. it went unheeded. YOU. WERE. RIGHT!
                  You hold power over me and abuse it. I do not like it, and say so. Suddenly I am a problem.. FIND. A. MIRROR!

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                  • #10
                    Doesn't matter who "started it," (were they 12?! ) just that you finished it. Well done!
                    This was one of those times where my mouth says "have a nice day" but my brain says "go step on a Lego". - RegisterAce
                    I can't make something magically appear to fulfill all your hopes and dreams. Believe me, if I could I'd be the first person I'd help. - Trixie

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                    • #11
                      If you feel that you can, and that you want to, contact the police and give a statement. Yes, it's after the fact - but you did have reason to leave.

                      I'm another one who's pleased that you intervened. If - and I hope thre's not - but if there's ever reason for you to need to do something like this again, you can always contact the police after you've left.


                      As for comfort and support; is there a victims of crime or witnesses of crime society where you are? There are such groups here, and they can be a big help.
                      Seshat's self-help guide:
                      1. Would you rather be right, or get the result you want?
                      2. If you're consistently getting results you don't want, change what you do.
                      3. Deal with the situation you have now, however it occurred.
                      4. Accept the consequences of your decisions.

                      "All I want is a pretty girl, a decent meal, and the right to shoot lightning at fools." - Anders, Dragon Age.

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                      • #12
                        Is it worth trying to find a pay-phone or some other anonymous way of contacting the police non-emergency line and talking to them about what happened?

                        I don't know if that opens you up to more trouble, though. Does your employer have any kind of legal program? I know that some places have a legal part of the Employee Assistance Program, but that is far from universal.
                        “There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old’s life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged.
                        One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world.
                        The other, of course, involves orcs." -- John Rogers

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                        • #13
                          First off, good for you for taking action. You may have saved someone's life.

                          There is a possibility that the person you sprayed may press charges. I have no idea if you would be better off staying quite or coming forward. This is one of those times where I would strongly recommend seeking professional advice.
                          Life is too short to not eat popcorn.
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                          • #14
                            Quoth csquared View Post

                            There is a possibility that the person you sprayed may press charges. I have no idea if you would be better off staying quite or coming forward. This is one of those times where I would strongly recommend seeking professional advice.
                            Pressing charges would be stupid as she would have to state what she was doing under oath as to why she was sprayed, and 5th amendment wouldn't apply

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                            • #15
                              I'm going to have to agree with csquared on this one. Even if not pressing criminal charges, there is still the possibility of a lawsuit.
                              I'm trying to see things from your point of view, but I can't get my head that far up my keister!

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