Beggar on the Train (again) and I finally have had enough

[WishfulSpirit]

Ok so there's this deaf beggar who works the trains and buses. I've seen him multiple times over the past year, so I assume this is his profession (and I assume it's hard for him to find a job...people with many different types of disabilities face that issue). I don't have a problem with him trying to make it the best way he can.

The problem is that he Panhandling on public transit is illegal in my area, and that he sticks his "give me something" sign in your face when you can't get away from him (for example, he'll stand in the bus or train aisle and block it so you can't get out of your seat). Since he's deaf, he either doesn't understand "no" or pretends not to. He also doesn't seem to get a head shake. I don't honesty think he's dangerous but it's uncomfortable to be trapped by a nonverbal individual who wants something from you and doesn't want to take no for an answer.

I've called transit security on this guy multiple times. I've raised my voice and told him to go away (really more for the sake of calling attention to my situation since he couldn't hear me) while pointing away from me, and that worked, but he tried it again at 11:30pm last night.

I'd had it. This time I wanted him gone. I showed him my pepper spray. He said "woah woah" and backed off, then exited the train at the next stop.

I'm sorry he's in a bad situation, and I feel bad, but I really just wanted this guy away from me. I hope he remembers my face when he resumes his efforts (as I know he will, he's been at it for over a year that I know of).

[wolfie]

I'd had it. This time I wanted him gone. I showed him my pepper spray. He said "woah woah" and backed off, then exited the train at the next stop.

I'd be VERY cautious about that. In some jurisdictions, your actions could be seen as "brandishing a weapon". If the guy is merely annoying, rather than posing a threat (where you'd be justified in using the pepper spray), you could wind up in serious trouble.

[CyberLurch]

I'd be VERY cautious about that. In some jurisdictions, your actions could be seen as "brandishing a weapon". If the guy is merely annoying, rather than posing a threat (where you'd be justified in using the pepper spray), you could wind up in serious trouble.

Possibly true, but if he's panhandling in an area where it isn't permitted, odds are he's not going to call attention to himself by contacting the police. The anti-panhandling laws are in place specifically to prevent the constant harassment of the public in general, and he's probably already known to the local authorities.

I've found, through unfortunate experience, that the really aggressive panhandlers are generally just con artists, and once you've been identified as 'sympathetic', they will not leave you alone.

I feel bad for those who are in genuine need, I really do. But where I live it is impossible to know who is and isn't really in need, and the beggars are everywhere, and absolutely brazen. Seriously, encountering some of them is just short of getting mugged; they are aggressive to the point of becoming hostile, and I carry a little something special should I ever need to defend myself. Fortunately, since my job went belly up a few months ago, I haven't had any particular need to be in the area where it's worst, but there are still the ones who hang out at gas stations and outside grocery stores to deal with.

As bad as it is here, I'm told it's far worse in Detroit.

[WishfulSpirit]

Where I live pepper spray is considered a self-defense tool and not a weapon. I am not a lawyer, but I believe it's legal to tell someone you feel is threatening you that you will defend yourself if necessary. Since the guy was a deaf that's basically what I did by showing him my pepper spray and waving for him to go away.

[eltf177]

If you feel threatened then I don't see pulling out pepper spray to be a hostile act. Especially as this guy is flouting the law and knows it.

I would write a VERY strongly worded letter to the transit company, also sending it to the local authorities and the newspapers, stating that something more needs to be done. Describe your situation and the fact that you do NOT feel safe.

With any luck that should get something to be done. Best of luck.

[An Haddock]

Interesting that he spoke when confronted, though. Obviously deaf people can speak, of course, but it lends some credence to his being a faker. Too bad he didn't say anything else. With deaf people they have an affect to their voice so with a few more words the OP might have been able to tell if they were the real deal or someone pretending to be deaf, which is pretty despicable if that's the case.

[WishfulSpirit]

He did sound like he had the "deaf affect" (for lack of a better phrase) and its possible he knows a few words or at least meaningful sounds. Transit security knows this guy and they are trying to do something about him but he is determined.

[Slave to the Phone]

While I feel that its shameful how the American government treats the disabled, I don't think that you or I personally should be forced to feel threatened or uncomfortable by their actions.

That being said, I don't think that you did anything wrong. While your Transit Authorities are trying to do something about him, they can't be everywhere at once. As usual, its up to you to look out for your best interests.

Hopefully, he will remember you and will avoid you from now on.

I really hope that you never have to actually have to use that pepper spray, but if you do, remember to kick him in the you-knows before running away as fast as you can. Pepper spray doesn't keep people down long enough.

[protege]

As bad as it is here, I'm told it's far worse in Detroit.

I've heard that too. Also, some areas of NYC have panhandling issues. I saw several on the trains when I was there last year. Most were ignored by riders. Others, only left after you told them to fuck off.

Not so much here in Pittsburgh. Sure, you might see the occasional beggar near the bus stops, but not so much in the subway system. Too many cameras and transit cops around...plus you have to pay to enter (and exit) outside of the free zone. From what I understand, they'll get kicked off the T if they try to stay on at the end of the line. Downtown, they're smart enough to know that if they get annoying, they'll soon see the boys in blue.

[Lace Neil Singer]

Over where I live, there is a genuine case who is always grateful for anything given to him. Reason why I know he's genuine? He asks for food, not money, and I often get him a coffee and some food for his dog. I've found that con artist beggars will scorn food and just demand money.

[MoonCat]

Yeah, no. Getting in your face and blocking someone so they can't move is an aggressive move. He has no right to get in your space like that. I don't see anything wrong with showing him the pepper spray as a warning. How else are you going to convey that you mean business when he can't hear you?

If you feel that uncomfortable then you have a right to defend yourself.

[BlaqueKatt]

I've found, through unfortunate experience, that the really aggressive panhandlers are generally just con artists, and once you've been identified as 'sympathetic', they will not leave you alone.

one of the easier ways to tell is to look at their shoes. A "professional" is going to be wearing shoes they can stand or walk in for 8-12 hours, someone in genuine need makes do with what they have/can afford.

[Lace Neil Singer]

^ Exactly. The homeless guy I mentioned earlier wears a pair of trainers that I saw a lady give him. They're old and tatty now, cuz that was years ago. I've chatted with him a couple of times, and he's always nice and polite. It sucks that there are arseholes who pretend to be in need just to scam money. That's why it's best not to give money direct; instead, donate to charities like Shelter who will ensure that the money goes where it's needed the most.

[CyberLurch]

one of the easier ways to tell is to look at their shoes. A "professional" is going to be wearing shoes they can stand or walk in for 8-12 hours, someone in genuine need makes do with what they have/can afford.

That is something I had not considered, and it makes sense. Thank you for the tip.

[Monterey Jack]

Anyone who spends a lot of time on their feet, and can afford a proper pair of comfortable/warm shoes, will do so. If you see someone on the street begging for change in a pair of dirty, ratty sneakers being held together with duct tape on a freezing January morning, then it's pretty likely they actually are in dire need.