GMA Reporter teaches people how to haggle...

[CorDarei]

Still, the point is that you don't haggle at big, chain retail establishments over $0.50 on a $3.00 item....

agreed

My attempts at haggling at jewelery stores, as well, have been restricted to sighing and saying "Oh, I love that ring but I only have $20 on me," when seeing a great hand-hammered silver ring for $25. Shocked me silly when the person sold it to me, too, as I'd always grown up with the sticker price being the sticker price.

that's pretty cool about the ring. I also grew up with sticker price is what you pay, and that's the reason i think i suck so bad at haggling.

... At a used car dealership, I might consider haggling, but if it's for a new car, I wouldn't.

I'm kinda shocked about this. It must be different there, because any car (new or used) you would want to haggle for here, as they (especially on new ones) try to get you for a lot more than what they paid for it.

....
If you seriously need to haggle over a 50c pack of gum, you need help.

agreed again.

[Pezzle]

Maybe something like "If I pay half of the amount now, can I get the extended warranty free please?"

Um. That would negate the point of up-selling an extended warranty, the purpose of which is (according to most corporations) not to service the customer's product but to tack on free profit to a big ticket item.

Many big ticket items in, say, a computer department net negative profit when sold standalone.

[Canarr]

Okay, not really following here...

Only managers have this authority, and getting to a manager in this means you're going to make a peon miserable, which of course gives them absolutely no incentive to be helpful to you ever again.

Why is it making someone miserable to refer the haggler to their manager? As written in the article, one associate simply handed the reporter a phone to call one.

First off, asking the impossible is a bad start.

Apparently, it wasn't impossible; seemed to work pretty well where she went.

Then holding up the lines trying to make the impossible happen is further suckiness.

Unless, like the reporter, you choose a time where there's not much traffic in the store. Thus, no holdup of other customers.

Then getting the manager involved who may or may not have a spine. If he has no spine, then thats even more suckiness, since the peon in question has basically been made a fool of.

Again, why is it sucky to involve the manager on an issue the "peon" cannot make a decision on? That's what managers are for, right? Plus, if the associate simply tells the customer, "I can't authorize that, I'll get you a manager" then how has he been made a fool of?

[JustADude]

Apparently, it wasn't impossible; seemed to work pretty well where she went.

....

Again, why is it sucky to involve the manager on an issue the "peon" cannot make a decision on? That's what managers are for, right? Plus, if the associate simply tells the customer, "I can't authorize that, I'll get you a manager" then how has he been made a fool of?

Because, Canarr, if an employee says "No", not "I'm not authorized" but "NO"... which is what will happen in 95%+ of all the relevant situations... and you go bitch to a manager to get your way, you have just demonstrated that you have no respect for their ability or knowledge and, depending on how you go about it, possibly insulted them as a person as well.

Management will usually cave and give into your demands if you act like a huge fucking bitch and raise a massive stink because they're payed way more than the peons, and the store will actually lose money if they take too long dealing with you whining that you can't get your $0.50. They only give it to you because you make yourself such a big nuisance that it's cheaper to just pay you off.

That doesn't make you right, special, or a "good bargainer". That just makes you a Sucky Customer and an Entitlement Whore.

And, for reference, haggling is a mutually-agreed-upon bargaining process over the price of goods and/or services, not you showing your ass until you get your way.

[Canarr]

Because, Canarr, if an employee says "No", not "I'm not authorized" but "NO"... which is what will happen in 95%+ of all the relevant situations... and you go bitch to a manager to get your way, you have just demonstrated that you have no respect for their ability or knowledge and, depending on how you go about it, possibly insulted them as a person as well.

I get that, Dude. But Hyndis specifically stated in... her?... example that the employees are not authorized to do that. Not that they say no, but that they're not authorized. In that case, I don't understand what the problem is.

Of course, I agree that haggling through sucky behavior - throwing a tantrum, screaming, being pushy and treating employees rudely - is, quite simply, being an a**hole. But, trying to get a deal by negotiating, arguing - in a calm, reasonable manner - why should that be sucky? If the responsible person - manager or not - doesn't want to grant a discount, they can simply say no, and the customer is free to take their business elsewhere.

Yes, haggling on clothes may seem silly. But if you need to buy a lot of clothes, it can add up pretty fast. A friend of mine has three kids, all under the age of ten, and all growing very quickly. Thus, she finds herself buying new clothes for them at an alarming frequency. So, she actively looks for deals, combines her purchases with other parents to bundle their business, and, yes, haggles. I see no reason to find that offensive, or outrageous, or whatever (yes, she does treat people decently).

[JustADude]

I get that, Dude. But Hyndis specifically stated in... her?... example that the employees are not authorized to do that. Not that they say no, but that they're not authorized(1). In that case, I don't understand what the problem is.

...

But, trying to get a deal by negotiating, arguing(2) - in a calm, reasonable manner(3) - why should that be sucky? If the responsible person - manager or not - doesn't want to grant a discount, they can simply say no(4), and the customer is free to take their business elsewhere.

...

So, she actively looks for deals, combines her purchases with other parents to bundle their business(5), and, yes, haggles. I see no reason to find that offensive, or outrageous, or whatever (yes, she does treat people decently).

1) Because the manager has the authority to break the rules doesn't mean that the rules aren't being broken. If they actually say they're not authorized, then asking if they can check with someone is cool. Demanding to speak with a manager isn't.

2) If you are arguing over the price, even in a "calm, reasonable manner" you are arguing over the price. Most retail cashiers I've known would gladly cave your head in with a crowbar if you push the issue after they've said no, if they thought they could get away with it. Asking if they can get you a better deal is perfectly understandable, and even a sign of trust and respect that gets you brownie-points with them, but arguing over the price will only make them loathe you like the scum of the earth. Also, Arguing is NOT negotiating. Negotiating is a cooperative process, while arguing is adversarial. They are, in fact, completely opposite ways of trying to solve a problem involving two different parties.

3) Most customers who try it to play "Lets Make A Deal" with management are EWs, not proper hagglers, and they rarely stay calm when told no. Because of that, when you directly to a manager to override what the cashier told you there is a good chance, if you do get what you want, they likely only gave in to prevent what they perceived as a potential 'incident'.

4)SCs even more rarely give up after asking once. They get what they want because they refuse to go away, even if they don't act outright offensive, until it becomes cheaper for the store to give in than keep wasting management hours on them.

5) Bulk orders are a different story entirely. When you're offering a huge sale all at once, there is room for negotiation. We've been talking about standard, every-day purchases for the purposes of this thread.

--------------------------------------------------

In short, yes, there are very specific circumstances where it's okay to haggle or pursue management, but in an overwhelming majority of cases it's neither appropriate nor helpful to haggle in a retail environment, and the vast bulk of the people who do try it are Entitlement Whores. You get much better results by asking what options are available and choosing from what is offered by the employee.

[Canarr]

1) I don't see the rules being broken by necessity. I think it was the second store mentioned, JC Penney, where Corporate confirmed afterwards that the discount given was well within the manager's discretion.

2) Okay, that wasn't as clear as intended (sorry, not a native speaker). I meant arguing in the sense of presenting arguments - i.e., that should be going on sale soon, can you give me a corresponding discount now, as used in the article. That's perfectly reasonable, IMO. Of course, we leave the area of "reasonable" when the customer keeps insisting on a point after it's been declined.

3) and 4) The fact that many people (allegedly) abuse this process and are simply being SCs doesn't invalidate the process in itself. Meaning, if SCs are being sucky about haggling, then the problem isn't the haggling, but the SC itself.

I witnessed a case of sucky haggling around Christmas last year; but it was actually quite entertaining:

SH - Sucky Haggler
CSP - Cool Sales Person
Me - Well...

Background: I was shopping in our local Media Markt (European chain store for electronics, games, movies etc.). Before Christmas, they had a special going: for any sale above, I think, 300 Euros (450 USD), you could get one year financing interest-free. Meaning, buy it now, pay 12 monthly rates, but no interest.

I overheard the conversation:

CSP: Hello, how may I help you?
SH: Yeah, I'm interested in this DVD Recorder. Says here 300 Euros, but I'd be getting it together with that Plasma TV... can you give me a discount on both?
CSP: Sorry, our prices are already the lowest you can find. Feel free to check around, you won't find those items for less anywhere around.
SH: Come on, I know you've got some room left. That's a large purchase, you can give me something for that... yaddayadda... good customer... (yes, I recognized many of the signs I've learned from reading here).
CSP: Unfortunately not, we can't go any lower than the marked price.
SH: Hey you've got that free financing thing going, right?
CSP: Yes. Would you like to finance your purchase?
SH: No, I've got the money here. But you can give me a discount instead!
CSP: Sorry, we can't do that. The special is a bonus for our customers. But you are free to put the money in the bank (with the Plasma, the purchase would've come to 5,000 Euros), collect interest on it, and use our free financing to pay it off over the next year.
SH: Nah, I don't want that. You're not a good salesman, you know that? You don't want to make a sale.
CSP: Sorry you feel that way. Anything else I can help you with?
SH: No, I'm leaving. If you don't want to sell, then I don't want to buy.
CSP: Goodbye, then, and Merry Christmas.

SH left.

Me: You get a lot of those?
CSP: Constantly. Can I help you with anything?
Me: Yeah, one of those DVD Players, please.
CSP: There you go, and Merry Christmas.

Throughout the exchange, the salesman stayed calm, friendly, even cheerful. The haggler wasn't overly sucky, either (not by the standards I've learned here), he didn't get loud, didn't threaten anything, was just a bit pushy with his insistence that he get a deal.

[JustADude]

The haggler wasn't overly sucky, either (not by the standards I've learned here), he didn't get loud, didn't threaten anything, was just a bit pushy with his insistence that he get a deal.

My main point, really, above all, is that, even though the process is solid, most of the people who take that show's advice will be like this guy. The Sheeple can't think well enough to finesse the haggling process, and will end up being Sucky trying to emulate what the reporter told them to try.

My problem isn't with the haggling itself, but with the fact that nearly everyone who tries it does it at the wrong time and place, and with the wrong attitude.

[Pagan]

Also, Arguing is NOT negotiating. Negotiating is a cooperative process, while arguing is adversarial.

All I can hear in my head is the Monty Python Argument Sketch!

M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
A: No it isn't.
M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.
A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
A: Yes it is!
M: No it isn't!
A: Yes it is!
M: Argument is an intellectual process. Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of any statement the other person makes.
(short pause)
A: No it isn't.

[candyshopgirl]

Luckly I have never had a haggler.The closet thing I've had is people being short on money. For me its all abou thier attitude. I've had the people digging around for a quater then say oh god I'm short.usually I'll say oh don't worry about it.Then I have the asshats that walked up and fling(yes literally throw) a dollar at me and say I only have a dollar.I know its a 1.50.Those people I lose it with. I usually say well thats too bad for you,put it back. I'm real lucky I can do whatever I want in my shop.My boss is just waiting to retire so she could care less.