Blood drawing sighting

[Eisa]

I don't know what exactly this fits under, but he seemed really incompetent to me, so...yeah. Not necessarily a douche or anything, but...incompetent.

When I was 16, I ended up having surgery scheduled over winter break. It was so I could breathe through my nose [I hadn't been able to since I was 3]. To this end, my ear/nose/throat doc wanted to perform a tonsillectomy/adenoidectomy/septoplasty. Before this could happen, I had to have my blood tested and had a clotting test done [where they would stick my arm and see how long it took to stop bleeding ].

I went to the hospital to get this done about a week before the surgery was supposed to happen. I was hoping to get this woman my dad had had before, who was disappointed when he felt a pinch! Sadly, no. I got this guy.

He fumbled a lot. He actually dropped a lot of stuff on the floor. [Yes, he got new things.] So that didn't exactly boost my confidence. I have a mild phobia of needles, anyway, and I know that it's difficult to get blood out of me because my veins like to hide and roll. [Case in point: the next week when they were putting my IV in, the first time didn't work and they had to call someone else in who was an "expert" at it to put the IV in.]

Anyway. I started feeling not so good. It only got worse when he did the clotting test. My mom said later that I was gray-white. I looked horrible.

And then I fainted.

The nurse didn't notice. My mom had to TELL him, "She fainted!" before he even looked up and noticed I was slumped against the wall, unconscious. He put smelling salts under my nose and that woke me up. FYI, smelling salts are horrible.

Then I ended up being wheeled over one hallway to the ER where they had to try to take my blood again [the nurse there kept apologizing, he knew it hurt like hell...I was holding my mom's hand and I think I almost broke her fingers]. They couldn't really decide what was wrong, but they decided I hadn't eaten/drank enough that day, combined with the fear of needles.

But...is it just me or was that guy really incompetent? I mean...how do you not notice your patient has FAINTED? He honestly didn't. He wasn't monitoring ME at all, just staring at my arm...and I know he needed to do that, as well, but every other time I've gotten my blood drawn, they're making sure I'm ok overall. [Also, I now warn people that I might faint. ]

That was just...I don't mind if someone causes me pain or takes a while, I know I'm difficult to get blood from. But dropping everything and then not noticing I'm unconscious? Yeah, that bugs the hell out of me.

[Teskeria]

I know that it's difficult to get blood out of me because my veins like to hide and roll. [Case in point: the next week when they were putting my IV in, the first time didn't work and they had to call someone else in who was an "expert" at it to put the IV in.]

How about when they need to call the shift supervisor from neonatal to put an iv in you, as they've already tried 5 times and you are hysterical? (yeah, really. I was in hospital 3 months and they move the iv. and it never takes less than 3 attempts, I get hysterical by the 2nd attempt because I REALLY*1,000,000,000 hate needles). First person EVER to get it in first try. about 10 years later a lab tech got my blood first time, but that's twice in my entire life. (and I am Not young)

[surreal20]

he most likely wasn't a nurse then hun, if he didn't notice you. He must have been a phlebotomist. That's a fancy medical term for "blood drawer"

[Sleepwalker]

I feel ya. I always got the rookies when I had my weekly(!) blood draws as a kid. Fifteen years later, I still have scars like I was a junkie.

I understand that they gotta train these gys on somebody, but why o why do they train them on scared kids?

[Eisa]

How about when they need to call the shift supervisor from neonatal to put an iv in you, as they've already tried 5 times and you are hysterical? (yeah, really. I was in hospital 3 months and they move the iv. and it never takes less than 3 attempts, I get hysterical by the 2nd attempt because I REALLY*1,000,000,000 hate needles). First person EVER to get it in first try. about 10 years later a lab tech got my blood first time, but that's twice in my entire life. (and I am Not young)

Oh my goodness, I'm sorry. That sounds horrible. It also reminds me of a time I was in the ER and next to a baby/toddler who needed to have her blood drawn--and she was screaming blue murder over it because they were having a hard time and she was scared. I was like...you poor thing.

he most likely wasn't a nurse then hun, if he didn't notice you. He must have been a phlebotomist. That's a fancy medical term for "blood drawer"

Huh. Maybe. I could have sworn it said that he was a nurse somewhere, but maybe not. In that case, he's still incompetent, since he kept dropping everything.

I feel ya. I always got the rookies when I had my weekly(!) blood draws as a kid. Fifteen years later, I still have scars like I was a junkie.

I understand that they gotta train these gys on somebody, but why o why do they train them on scared kids?

Yeah, I don't know. I haven't gotten too many scars, generally because I WILL pitch a fit if they start like...wiggling the needle under my skin and shit. That's not ok in my book. But I remember my sister had to go to urgent care once and she needed to get her blood drawn. I can't remember what it was for. But the nurse couldn't do it. They pricked her several places on both arms, both hands...they had to get the DOCTOR to come in and do it, and he did it in ONE try. But she looked like a pincushion! And she's not hard to get blood from, either. So they were just...rookies or idiots or something.

[LillFilly]

he most likely wasn't a nurse then hun, if he didn't notice you. He must have been a phlebotomist. That's a fancy medical term for "blood drawer"

I'm sorry, but I know quite a few VERY good phlebotomists who know as much as any nurse, and sometimes more than the doctors!

I would just say, whatever his position, he just wasn't on the ball that day!

[wagegoth]

That was pretty horrible.

I got a guy like that one time. He left 3 to 4 holes in both arms before he finally got the draw. By the third stick, I was getting woozy, which I never normally do. I don't like to watch the needle going in, but it doesn't freak me out. So this guy was special.

About a month later, my cousin was in the hospital for surgery. I was visiting when the nurse came in to let her know the phlebotomist was on his way for the final draw before surgery. I had been telling my cousin the horror story of this guy, when guess who comes in to do her draw? Yeah, him. I left the room because I felt so bad about telling the story, which actually had her laughing at the time, but wound up being horribly prescient.

[MoonCat]

Ewww, that sounds awful. Maybe you were his first "real" patient and he was nervous so that's why he was dropping things?

My veins move so they have to go into the big one on my hand to draw blood. I hate it because when I had surgery they had to do this and it hurt like hell, but going into my arm is nasty because the veins keep sliding around.

I never used to faint, though, until this one time when I went to the doctor feeling horribly sick (thought my gallbladder was acting up) and they decided to draw blood. Combined with alread feeling woozy and nauseated, that did it: I started to faint. And these doofuses, for some reason, though I was having a seizure so next thing I know someone is shoving a ball of wadded-up paper towels into my mouth. Now even I know that is not what you do for a seizure. And it wasn't a seizure, I was just fainting. So now every time I need blood drawn, I have to lie down while they're doing it.

[jedimaster91]

But...is it just me or was that guy really incompetent? I mean...how do you not notice your patient has FAINTED? He honestly didn't. He wasn't monitoring ME at all, just staring at my arm...and I know he needed to do that, as well, but every other time I've gotten my blood drawn, they're making sure I'm ok overall. [Also, I now warn people that I might faint. ]

Hence why I keep talking to my patients while I'm wielding the needle. If they suddenly stop responding, there's a problem.

he most likely wasn't a nurse then hun, if he didn't notice you. He must have been a phlebotomist. That's a fancy medical term for "blood drawer"

The phlebotomists are usually very good. Depending on the area of nursing, most nurses don't start IVs on a regular basis. If you really want the best sticker, you want either the phlebotomist or one of the imaging techs. Those of us who start IVs for most of our patients tend to get pretty good at it.

Yeah, I don't know. I haven't gotten too many scars, generally because I WILL pitch a fit if they start like...wiggling the needle under my skin and shit. That's not ok in my book.

I hate doing it, but sometimes it's necessary. But I stop if the patient's screaming at me.

But I remember my sister had to go to urgent care once and she needed to get her blood drawn. I can't remember what it was for. But the nurse couldn't do it. They pricked her several places on both arms, both hands...they had to get the DOCTOR to come in and do it, and he did it in ONE try. But she looked like a pincushion! And she's not hard to get blood from, either. So they were just...rookies or idiots or something.

I've bashed our local plasma center for this. Mr Jedi used to sell his plasma pretty regularly. He is probably the easiest person to get blood out of. I dance for joy when patients have his kind of veins. Garden hoses, really. And there were several employees at the plasma place who would consistantly miss him.

So now every time I need blood drawn, I have to lie down while they're doing it.

Other tech M taught me that trick when I started working for <hospital>. When I asked him why he always laid his patients down, he said it was in case they pass out, they were already laying down. Makes sense, ya?

[Sapphire Silk]

I'm sorry, but I know quite a few VERY good phlebotomists who know as much as any nurse, and sometimes more than the doctors!

Know more than nurses and doctors about what?

I'd buy more skilled at drawing blood than most doctors and many nurses as opposed to more knowledgeable.

But drawing blood is very different from starting an IV. Phlebotomists are not generally trained to start IVs. Image techs are, because they work with contrast . . . they tend to be good.

True, most nurses don't do it very often either: we've been spoiled by the IV teams. OR nurses, ICU nurses, ER nurses, and NICU nurses are the best: we do it a lot and we're good at getting the "hard" sticks.

No one should stick a patient more than twice, no matter how good they are. People are not pincushions!

[Eisa]

MoonCat: They shoved PAPER TOWELS in your mouth? How on earth was that supposed to help anything?!

Yeah, that's how most people are when they take my blood, they keep talking to me and asking if I'm ok. I remember one time when I was at the ER and they needed to draw my blood...they had one nurse try a few times, but they didn't want to keep poking me for no reason [didn't want to turn me into a pincushion ] so they had someone from the lab come down. And she was very nice. She realized I was freezing, so she took one of those infant foot warmers (?) and warmed up my arms and hands and let me keep it. And then she took my blood. I think it only took one try, it was really nice.

I also have to be either lying down or I have to sit down and not get up right away [depends...ER visits, I'm lying down of course, but when I have my thyroid tested and when I um *cough* had an STD test *cough* I was sitting].

Oh, and I suppose I can understand that sometimes you have to wiggle the needle--people have done that when they JUST about had the vein, but it needed that extra little wiggle to actually get in the vein. But like...with my sister, they had it where they basically stuck the needle in and then started wiggling it all over the place, like they were hoping to skewer a vein by chance.

Also, Panacea: That makes sense. I hadn't thought about phlebotomists not being able to start IVs because it seems kind of...not the same, but inserting the needle seems close to the same.

Oh! Minor IV question. I had an IV put in my hand the last time I went to the ER for fluids...I was dehydrated [they wanted me to pee in a cup, but I couldn't--partly 'cause I'd just gone like an hour or two before...but...*shrug* They were also mean and said something like if I couldn't pee after I got a bag of IV fluid, they would put a catheter in or something. *shudders* Hell to the no.] But anyway. It was kind of on the side of my hand, as the only place that would take the needle...the nurse actually said that if I hadn't kept perfectly still while she did it, she wouldn't have been able to get it in. But it hurt the entire time it was in. Is that normal for an IV to keep hurting like that? I figured it was normal when the IV line had been disconnected for blood to come back up in the tube, but I've never had it where it kept hurting like that. The last time I had an IV in my hand was for my surgery and that just hurt for a second while they put it in.

[jedimaster91]

It was kind of on the side of my hand, as the only place that would take the needle...the nurse actually said that if I hadn't kept perfectly still while she did it, she wouldn't have been able to get it in. But it hurt the entire time it was in. Is that normal for an IV to keep hurting like that? I figured it was normal when the IV line had been disconnected for blood to come back up in the tube, but I've never had it where it kept hurting like that. The last time I had an IV in my hand was for my surgery and that just hurt for a second while they put it in.

Maybe. If that vein was close to a nerve and was touching it in some way, it might feel uncomfortable. The IV location itself can sometimes cause discomfort. I know backs of hands and sides of wrists (fark, I hate going there...) are more sensitive areas and definitely hurt more. What you absolutely should not feel is burning or stinging when the IV is in use (ie, when something is injected into it). That's a sign that the IV is not in the vein properly and whatever's being injected is going into the soft tissue, not the blood.

[Andara Bledin]

She realized I was freezing, so she took one of those infant foot warmers (?) and warmed up my arms and hands and let me keep it. And then she took my blood. I think it only took one try, it was really nice.

I wonder how many of these multi-stick issues are because of stress from the doctor's visit coupled with the chilly temperatures in most doctors' offices?

It seems like a no-brainer that if you want to be able to find the blood vessels more easily you'd get the patient warm so they would be dilated.

But it hurt the entire time it was in. Is that normal for an IV to keep hurting like that?

I don't know about regular IVs, but I've had a few times when I've given blood that the needle site has ached the entire 8 minutes it takes me to bleed out a pint. Mostly just a dull pressure ache.

^-.-^

[Mikkel]

It seems like a no-brainer that if you want to be able to find the blood vessels more easily you'd get the patient warm so they would be dilated.

The oncology nurses would put the patient's arm in warm water if they couldn't find a vein. Not on me, I had a port implanted (and got it taken out yesterday, hooray), but I saw it often.

[Sapphire Silk]

<snip>

Also, Panacea: That makes sense. I hadn't thought about phlebotomists not being able to start IVs because it seems kind of...not the same, but inserting the needle seems close to the same.

Oh! Minor IV question. I had an IV put in my hand the last time I went to the ER for fluids...I was dehydrated [they wanted me to pee in a cup, but I couldn't--partly 'cause I'd just gone like an hour or two before...but...*shrug* They were also mean and said something like if I couldn't pee after I got a bag of IV fluid, they would put a catheter in or something. *shudders* Hell to the no.] But anyway. It was kind of on the side of my hand, as the only place that would take the needle...the nurse actually said that if I hadn't kept perfectly still while she did it, she wouldn't have been able to get it in. But it hurt the entire time it was in. Is that normal for an IV to keep hurting like that? I figured it was normal when the IV line had been disconnected for blood to come back up in the tube, but I've never had it where it kept hurting like that. The last time I had an IV in my hand was for my surgery and that just hurt for a second while they put it in.

We use something called an angiocath or jelcath to start IV's. Basically, it's a tiny plastic straw (anywhere from 24 gauge to 18 gauge typically, though they make larger sizes) over a needle. You insert the needle into the vein, then slip the straw off into the vein, remove the needle and attach IV tubing. Sounds simple, but it's a definite learned skill that takes lots of practice and is influenced by a lot of factors . . . like dehydration (makes veins collapse so they're hard to stick).

My sympathies for where your IV was. Jedimaster is right that there may have been a small nerve near the site. I hate using the hand for IV starts actually, because of this reason. I prefer the forearm: bigger veins, more stable IV sites, less painful, and the patient has more use of the limb. But sometimes beggars can't be choosers.