"I said it was for a costume, what did you think it was for!?"

[MaggieTheCat]

So a "friend" (I use the term loosely) custom ordered a piece of clothing that she was going to use as part of her Halloween costume. She ordered it a little over a month ago, in late September. She told the people she was ordering from that it was "for a costume" and they said that they were very busy with Halloween orders but that they thought they would be able to get it done in about 4-5 weeks.

Well, my "friend" never followed through with them, until the middle of this week. She emailed them asking where her piece was. They said that they had started it and it would be done next week.

Now my "friend" is throwing a fit because she won't have this piece for Halloween. Except, she never explicitly told them that it was for Halloween, and she didn't contact them until Wednesday or Thursday of this week to check on the status of it.

All of her friends (this was a FB discussion) are backing her and saying "You told them it was for a costume, when did they think you would need it by!? Demand your (non-refundable) deposit back!"

... Really? I mean, seriously? You don't give them a specific date for when you need the item and then are upset when they didn't read your mind to figure out that you needed it by that date? The company has so far refused to refund her deposit, I hope they don't back down.

[Slayer]

Yeah, I hope they don't back down either.

Lots of people order costumes without it actually being for Halloween and since she didn't tell the date she needed it by, I'd say she's out of luck.

[LillFilly]

Yes, she should have told them there was a specific date she needed it by, and should have considered that halloween would be a very busy time for them. Hope she can cobble something together for her costume in the meantime.

[Andara Bledin]

I'm kind of mixed on this one.

She said it was for a "Halloween costume," so absent any other information I would assume that they would want the piece in time for Halloween day.

While they didn't explicitly state that they would be able to make that deadline, they gave that impression. If this is an item to be shipped, then FTC law states that they are required to either ship by the earliest promised date or offer the buyer a full refund or the option to accept a later shipment date.

To be honest, I think the costume maker missed the boat on this one and should give the refund, consider it a lesson learned and move on.

^-.-^

[Redbeard]

Actually, it looks like she never specified to the company that it was for a Halloween costume, just for a costume. Given the amount of conventions, cosplay organizations, etc out there, it's her fault for not specifying a precise end date that she needed it for

[Andara Bledin]

Actually, it looks like she never specified to the company that it was for a Halloween costume, just for a costume. Given the amount of conventions, cosplay organizations, etc out there, it's her fault for not specifying a precise end date that she needed it for

Normally, I would agree. However, there is this:

She ordered it a little over a month ago, in late September. She told the people she was ordering from that it was "for a costume" and they said that they were very busy with Halloween orders but that they thought they would be able to get it done in about 4-5 weeks.

They gave a quote of "4-5 weeks" "a little over a month ago." If we make it only a month plus 1 day, that gives us September 27. And five weeks after that date would be Saturday, October 30th, which is the day before Halloween.

For reference:
Actual text of regulation at GPOAccess.gov
FTC's A Business Guide to the FTC's Mail or Telephone Order Merchandise Rule (also available as a pdf)

Basically, they implied a delivery date of October 30th (or earlier) and won't be able to meet that date and have an obligation to give the buyer the option to either accept a new delivery date or accept a full refund.

Note: this does not apply to orders that were negotiated 100% in person - all other orders that include any solicitation or payment, etc, via mail or electronic means are included.

^-.-^

[Slayer]

Normally, I would agree. However, there is this:

They gave a quote of "4-5 weeks" "a little over a month ago." If we make it only a month plus 1 day, that gives us September 27. And five weeks after that date would be Saturday, October 30th, which is the day before Halloween.

[...]

Basically, they implied a delivery date of October 30th (or earlier) and won't be able to meet that date and have an obligation to give the buyer the option to either accept a new delivery date or accept a full refund.

^-.-^

Yes, I can understand that, but saying they thought it would be done in 4-5 isn't the same as saying it will be done in 4-5 weeks. Since there was no followup to confirm, I don't see that the retailer has an obligation to provide a refund. And being done in 4-5 just means being done. Not done + shipped.

Also, if we use your Sept 27 date, 5 weeks is Nov 1st. And Oct 30th is a Sunday, btw lol

Personally, they're still in their time frame they thought they could work with.

[Andara Bledin]

The law states that either an implied estimate or a default of 30 days apply. And it's actually the earlier time quoted that is supposed to be adhered to; I used the 5-week time-frame to be generous. The 30th being Sunday only means that they would be legally required to ship by the 29th, instead. You are correct that 5 weeks from September 27th would be November 1st, but that is only relevant if the "over" part of "over a month ago" was equal to no more than 2 days; any earlier and the costume piece would have to be ready to ship by tomorrow at the latest (and more likely should have been shipped last Saturday to meet legal guidelines).

Legally, "done" means "handed off to the carrier" or handed off to the buyer or their agent, not completed and waiting to be shipped.

The general rule is that if you don't want to risk being required to tender a full refund if requested, then you either give a delivery estimate you absolutely know you can meet, or you don't give any delivery promise and let the default of 30 days apply, provided that would be longer than your longest estimate.

^-.-^

[Slayer]

And it's actually the earlier time quoted that is supposed to be adhered to; I used the 5-week time-frame to be generous.

How is the shorter time the correct one in a time frame? Any time I see call-to-orders on TV, there's always a time frame. If it's legally always the shorter time, why do time frames even exist?

[Andara Bledin]

Because the vast majority of buyers (and sellers, for that matter) are ignorant of many of the regulations to which they are bound or protected.

Plus, those are time estimates for delivery, which is not relevant to this particular discussion.

^-.-^

[Slayer]

Sorry, you kept referring to delivery and delivery dates for shipping and ship dates. I guess at 12:30 am isn't the best time for me to be making examples, lol.

Ignore the tv ads part then. Do you know which part of the site(s) you posted has the lesser-time part indicated? I would have thought that if a buyer agrees to the 4-5 frame (example), the longest would apply.

Edit:
Also, I read that the time starts when the payment is cleared. This could account for the 'added time', maybe? So if they say 2 weeks from Nov 1st, it's really 2 weeks from when they get paid? I figure credit won't really add time, but I don't know how her friend paid.

[Merriweather]

Please correct me if I'm not following this discussion correctly (it's late, I'm tired, not sure the brain is functioning properly) but is it being said that a person/company cannot say a package would be shipped in, say for example, 90 days? That it wouldn't be legal to take that long? Surely there are exceptions for items being ordered specially made? Many things could take months from time of order to completion/shipping (quilts, wedding dresses, etc). I must be missing something here.

[iradney]

Ok, can we leave the legal eagle stuff out of this? OP said the friend said it was for a "costume" not a Halloween costume. There are other dressing up occasions other than Halloween. Plus, if you're going to order something just over a month before an incredibly popular holiday like Halloween, don't be surprised if you don't actually get it. That's like trying to book a table in a popular restaurant a month before Valentine's day. Or getting the latest whizzbang kid's toy a month before Christmas. You get my point.

[PepperElf]

they said that they were very busy with Halloween orders but that they thought they would be able to get it done in about 4-5 weeks.

just as your "friend" claims they knew it was for a halloween costume
they can claim your "friend" knew it wouldn't be there in time for halloween. in fact they have more right to claim that since ... what part of "4-5 weeks" didn't the customer understand?