Dog Park Fight

[PepperElf]

And not the dogs....


quick background. The dog park has 2 sides - one for small dogs & one for big dogs (oh and a small obstacle course, so that's 3 really). We keep ours on the big-dog side because she can handle big dogs, and frankly we don't want her being rough on puppies or small dogs. She often plays with two other dogs at night - "Irish" (husky) and "Dictator" (Boston terrier). Irish loves trying to get our dog to play, which we love because it gets her exercise. Dictator is a little cute terror and plays rough, which is why he's usually on the big-dog side.

The problem is... other people bring their puppies to the big-dog side and then sometimes get really pissed with the bigger (or rougher) dogs play with them. Yes I understand that sometimes they'll have a big dog and a puppy but they're not the only ones using the park.


The fight:

Yesterday we were in the park and our dog was kinda playing with some dogs. She was the most active when a small running-yapping dog was in the small-dog side cos the dog wanted to race her from across the fence. And later on, she really perked up when "Irish" showed up.

Close to when we were thinking of leaving, "Dictator" showed up. His 'mom' had him almost inside when she looked at the dogs and made a point of taking him back out and going to the small-dog side.

I was currently doing something with the dog, but after a moment or two I headed over to find out why he was being put there.... Dictator's mom was avoiding one of the ladies with a puppy and talking about how she really wished the park would enforce the size suggestions and ages for dogs.

She said they were considering key-fobs like the other dog park has, and the group of us (my BF, her, "Irish's" mom, and I) talked for a minute or two about what the other park was like.

She also mentioned what the park's age restrictions were

Next thing I know...
"You know if you're going to talk shit about me!...."



Yeah... apparently the lady with the puppy decided that we were talking shit about her, and started harping on about how horrible "Dictator" was.


My bf and I decided it was time to go. I don't know if they continued arguing but... yeesh. Dictator was on the small dog side already, so her puppy wasn't in danger of being hurt. ... only her ego was being bruised.

apparently because we DARED talk about being tired of people bringing puppies to the big-dog side and expecting it to suddenly turn into a small-dog-safe area.

I mean sure with our dog we really work to keep her from playing with puppies. Even when the owners say "they can take it" cos they're usually wrong. But you know sometimes it's nice when we don't have to.


it's a bit like taking a kid to a bar and then complaining about the drinking...

[AmbrosiaWriter]

So, she's allowed to complain about people bringing their dogs to the "wrong area" - via indirectly whining about the park enforcing their suggested (which means they are GUIDELINES, not RULES) age/size categories. ~Which, if I've got this right, SHE'S in the wrong area because she brought her puppy to the big dog side where you are?~

But no one is allowed to complain about people who bring their dogs any damn place they please and expect to be accommodated?

Also I, personally, think that enforcing a "dog size/age rules of location" is a very bad idea. Because of the variety of breeds, and the difference between each and every dog in the breed, it should be up to the owner to decide where their dog fits best. They know their dog, the owners of the park do not.

[PepperElf]

I think you have it reversed somewhat.

"Dictator" is normally on the big-dog side even though he's a tiny Boston Terrier because he's too rough for the small-dog/puppy side. The day of the 'people-fight' as soon as his Mom saw the PuppyMom on the big-dog side she took him over to the (empty) small-dog side to avoid having to deal with the puppy (or puppymom).

PuppyMom came over to start yelling at us for discussing park rules as mentioned above through the fence. Notably the park DOES have a minimum age overall - puppies under a specific age aren't suppose to be there in the first place.

I'm not really sure what PuppyMom wanted. I mean Dictator was already in the other park so he couldn't play with her precious puppy, so ... I think she was just butthurt.

Now if PuppyMom felt her puppy could handle it, fine. The problem with her - and some others with puppy-owners - is that they bring them to the *big* dog side and then bitch when the bigger (or rougher) dogs don't coddle the puppies. (some of them also get uppity when a dog picks on theirs... but it's OK for their dog to pick on others )

[raudf]

It's one thing to go to the big dog side and expect rough housing. It's sucky to go over to the big dog side and expect all the dogs to play nicely with one another. Some dogs don't know how to play nicely! *glares at one of her rents' dogs* Some are just high play drives attached to 4 huge feet and no brains to speak of. Good thing he's so danged sweet tempered! My Mom says if there is every anyone this dog hates, be it human or animal, to call an exorcist...

I'm supposing this is a case of a park that you can take dogs off their leashes and let them play? If that so, separating the sizes is a good idea from a human stand point. Brainless is prone to bowling people over when playing with other dogs or if he really wants to give slobbers to someone.* People who deal with smaller dogs might not realize how strong he is and get hurt. But people who deal with big dogs know this and usually react accordingly.

* He's a stray that found his way to us, so we're working on his... enthusiasm. Given the play drive and really big heart, it's taking longer, because we don't want to resort to the smack the top of the head approach unless absolutely necessary.

[AmbrosiaWriter]

Dictator's mom was avoiding one of the ladies with a puppy and talking about how she really wished the park would enforce the size suggestions and ages for dogs.

Ha! This is where I got confused. I thought the "she" in the bolded part referred to the "lady with the puppy" and not D's Mommy. Now I get it.

---

I could see enforcing the "rules" on a case-by-case basis, because there are some puppies that probably shouldn't be with small dog or more passive breed puppies unless there has been some extensive training going on. (I can think of Pit Bulls, not because they're aggressive, but just because even as a puppy they have a lot of strength and as a puppy it's less likely they have yet to learn how to control it. It took me a bit to teach my BF's pittie puppy to not whip her head when playing Tug, because she could break someone's wrist/a dog's neck by accident.)

If mommies or daddies with puppies start to complain about the big dogs not coddling the puppies (which they won't, they're teaching puppies how to behave/what is an acceptable level of play) then they lose their right to the 'big-dog pen' until their puppy is grown, or just permanently if they have a small breed dog.

Otherwise bitch-lady (....pun... roflmao..bitch..dog.. get it? ) can mind her own business and take her dog someplace where her dog will be coddled and grow up to be a complete and utter brat.

[PepperElf]

ack yeah i forgot to mention that - it's off-the-leash there. that's why we go so that our own pooch can really get rid of excess energy. otherwise she'd never get to run at her real speed.

Ha! This is where I got confused. I thought the "she" in the bolded part referred to the "lady with the puppy" and not D's Mommy. Now I get it.

yeah i should have given them all better names before sorry!

[AmbrosiaWriter]

ack yeah i forgot to mention that - it's off-the-leash there. that's why we go so that our own pooch can really get rid of excess energy. otherwise she'd never get to run at her real speed.

So all the dogs there are going full on "LOOKIT ME I'M A DAAAAWWGGG" and playing and acting in the typical "group dog" way, but helicopter mommy wants them to be "Oh be very careful of the puppy, it's just a puppy, don't hurt the puppy, let the puppy nip and smack at you but don't do anything in response" (which teaches puppy nothing of how to act when around other dogs.)

The funny thing is this though;

Most big dogs, and dogs in general, play in a similar way to humans do. If you watch closely an older or bigger dog playing with a puppy or small dog, they will hold back and even at times roll onto their back and let the puppy win. It's actually quite remarkable.

[wheeitsmee]

So all the dogs there are going full on "LOOKIT ME I'M A DAAAAWWGGG" and playing and acting in the typical "group dog" way, but helicopter mommy wants them to be "Oh be very careful of the puppy, it's just a puppy, don't hurt the puppy, let the puppy nip and smack at you but don't do anything in response" (which teaches puppy nothing of how to act when around other dogs.)

The funny thing is this though;

Most big dogs, and dogs in general, play in a similar way to humans do. If you watch closely an older or bigger dog playing with a puppy or small dog, they will hold back and even at times roll onto their back and let the puppy win. It's actually quite remarkable.

The best example of this I ever saw was a older rescued pit bull at a dog park. It wouldn't allow any dogs to fight. If any other dogs started getting confrontational it would get between them and make it clear that that kind of behavior was not okay on his watch.

[PepperElf]

update: PuppyMom is still being a bitch.

We went yesterday and ended up going to the small dog / puppy side because "Irish" and "Dictator" were there already. While there, PuppyMom started warning everyone to take their puppies into the big dog side because evil Dictator was such a bad dog

I looked right at her but said nothing... but i'm sure she knew i was thinking, "you're such a bitch".

I somewhat agree with DM... puppymom will not be happy until DM stops coming to the park. Which is rather cuntish because it's not her fucking personal park. Although I did notice one of the other big dogs on the big dog side was attacking puppies too. o well.

Some other guy snapped at me too... he was probably listening to PuppyMom's venom. Someone brought a puppy in to the side we were on and Dictator latched on to it. I got there first and pulled Dictator off.

Guy: YOU NEED TO PUT A LEASH ON YOUR DOG!
Me: It's not mine.
Guy: WELL YOU NEED TO TELL THE OWNER TO!...
Me: *walked away with Dictator*

I mean wtf. Sure you want to lash out at someone but... really? Now it's MY job to tell someone how to handle their dog because your shorts are too tight? Do it your fucking self.


And mind you ... yes we were on the puppy side BUT the only reason was because PuppyMom was playing dogcop and had already entrenched herself & her puppy on the big dog side. Quite literally, DictatorMom brings Dictator to the small dog side if PM is there just to avoid a fight. Although PuppyMom still loves to talk shit... which is funny cos last time she was bitching about other people "talking shit" about her.

Pretty much DM & I agree... The only thing that would make PM happy would be if Dictator never came back to the park. And seriously, PM shouldn't have a right to demand that. It's not her personal park. Especially when her own puppy isn't even old enough to be there in the first place. ... yeah she claims it's 4 months old. Apparently a week or two ago it was only 8 weeks old. So somehow puppy aged 2 months overnight

After Dictator & Irish left, puppymom came over to the small dog side. which to me says... o she really CAN go to that side. I think she's just trying to force the situation to drive dictator out.

we also wondered if she was going to try to start shit with our dog but our dog pretty much ignored her puppy.

[AmbrosiaWriter]

Someone brought a puppy in to the side we were on and Dictator latched on to it. I got there first and pulled Dictator off.

Now this has me curious.

I've seen my dog "latch" onto puppies, where it is basically he just puts his mouth around the back of their neck and holds. Is that what Dictator is doing, but people are freaking out thinking he's attacking the puppy? (Seriously people who don't understand dog behavior then go on and on about how aggressive another dog is really get on my nerves.)

Or is he a higher energy level, so it comes across as "aggressive"?


Either way, I think the best thing for you and DM to do is to keep doing what you are doing. Stay away from her, let her whinge and cry.

It's too bad slander doesn't count for dogs.

[Kitten in the box]

Hopefully everything works out for you (and Dictator too) as well as the other dogs. As long as Dictator can hold his own with the bigger dogs and does not show any malicious intent towards them or any pups that can be with the bigger dogs then why not let him do what he does? If Puppy Mom is so concerned about her pup being hurt by the other dogs then why not remove him/her from the park altogether. I think if Dictator wanted to do serious harm to to other dogs he'd be able to. I go to dog parks from time to time and all the dogs i've seen get along well together. yes there is a 'Big Dog' side and a 'Little Dog' side but the dogs can mingle if they choose to, (except the big dogs can't go into the little dog area.) I've seen pups romp and play with a group of large dogs and no harm come of it. Puppy Mom needs to be concerned with her own dog and let the other dog parents worry about theirs.

[Andara Bledin]

Honestly, if I were in that situation as DM, I would totally not take him into the little/puppy dog side of the park. DM knows he plays rough and belongs on the big/tough dog side, and that's really where he should be.

Otherwise, there are going to be more incidents of Dictator appearing to be too rough with the dogs on that side, which isn't fair to their owners, since they're doing the right thing, instead of just being incidents with BM (aka Bitch Mom, as it's more fitting ) who is already in the wrong.

^-.-^

[Flying Grype]

The best example of this I ever saw was a older rescued pit bull at a dog park. It wouldn't allow any dogs to fight. If any other dogs started getting confrontational it would get between them and make it clear that that kind of behavior was not okay on his watch.

Whenever my mother's pit saw other dogs behaving badly, she would go from friendly ears-up tail-wagging greeting mode to looking away and going "what other dog? There's no other dog here." I'd never seen a dog actually pretend another dog wasn't there. It wasn't aggressive or defensive body language, it was a complete lack of body language. It was pretty awesome.

[PepperElf]

Or is he a higher energy level, so it comes across as "aggressive"?

Yes, pretty much. Dictator is a boston terrier. I think my old cat is bigger than him, but not as solid.

The problem with Dictator is that he really hates puppies. His owner really does try to stop him from being a pain, which is why she likes putting him on the big-dog side.


On the big-dog side she doesn't have to watch him as much, normally. Normally the only he only does a few "wrong" things... he tries to get out of the fence tho he doesn't go anywhere after that, and he tries to jump in our water "dish" (it's a small cooler). He also tries to hump my dog... but my dog won't let him so I end up rolling my eyes at him.

But when people start bringing their puppies in he latches on. Any normal dog could take it and just swat him off - like what my dog does - but the puppies can't.



But when puppymom gets there first and creates a situation where he can't be anywhere BUT the puppy-side... to me it's like she's purposefully trying to set him up for failure, so that she feels justified in bitching about him.



of course i'm also still annoyed about the jackass who tried scolding ME about dictator. i dislike people who get confrontational like that about other people's dogs. especially since he still wanted to take it out on me as if it's still somehow my responsibility.

but it's probably because he was listening to puppymom yapping her piehole constantly bitching.

yeah i usually don't dislike people this much, but... she's crossed my threshold. and it's not an easy thing to do, to get me to remember someone as "oh yeah that bitch with the puppy"

[AmbrosiaWriter]

If you do confront her at some point, just blatantly point out that if she doesn't want people playing rough with her puppy, then she should take her puppy to the puppy side. End of discussion, anything else would be seen as her agreeing to the general play-scape that is the big dog world. Even if they don't mean it, a big, 250 pound Tibetan Mastiff could sit on a puppy and not notice, and it's up to the owner to put their own dog in the best position for their own dog.

Otherwise she's doing it for her own malicious agenda. So I say bring DM to the big dog side, that's where he belongs due to his play style, and tell BM to get her ass over to the puppy side if she doesn't like how the big dogs play - or in this case, big dog in a small dog's body.