Please learn how 4 way stops work!

[Catwoman2965]

I have to start out by saying, at least where I live, and generally in my state, there are not too many 4 way stops. There are some, but not many, so I think that's why people don't get how they work.

There is one on my way to work. I came up to it today, needing to go straight. Car to my right got there a hair before I did, also going straight. And a minivan is behind him. So he goes, and then I start to to go. Minivan decides its HER turn, and starts turning right, where I was trying to cross over too! I gave her the "WTF do you think your doing" hand wave, and she gave me the stink eye. But really? It's not hard. You take turns. Generally, all cars in front of each line go, then the ones behind. And so on. Then again, I live in NJ where we are not known for patient or polite drivers!

[EricKei]

Sadly, a number of people who live where 4-way stops are frakkin' everywhere don't seem to know how to use them, either.

[dalesys]

I thought the rule was "Everybody burn rubber at the same instant."

[notalwaysright]

Where I used to live had many 4-way stops, and they made me super irritated. The only way I could get through one was, when it was my turn, just GO. I can't count the number of times it was very clearly my turn and the other person doesn't even stop, or tries to go ahead of me. Whenever I tried to take my turn and I didn't yield to the person who was trying to get ahead, they were like ! I mean, they just expected me not to push the issue, but like I said, I'd never get through if I did that.

[NecessaryCatharsis]

The biggest problem with the 4 way stops here, especially the busy ones, is when people just randomly wave someone else through. It throws off the whole rhythm.

[Chromatix]

The problem, I think, is that people don't really like the idea of "taking turns".

Even when it's enforced by traffic lights, and with the rather obvious consequence of T-boning (and it doesn't matter which part of the T you end up in, it sucks) it has to be backed up by heavy fines, disqualification and custodial sentences for a certain kind of person to get the message.

Roundabouts are slightly better in this respect. The rule at a roundabout is simple: a vehicle already on it has the right of way over one who isn't. Approaching one, you can just find a gap and slot into it, if you plan far enough ahead. For keeping traffic flow going, they're excellent. Just watch out for motorcycles: SMIDSY accidents (Sorry Mate I Didn't See You) often occur at roundabouts because a motorbike is small enough to hide behind the A-pillar of a car, which naturally turns in the same direction as the bike is approaching. The fix is to lean forward *and* back to clear that particular blind spot.

Where roundabouts fail is when there's enough traffic in one particular direction (say, coming off a major road) to effectively block access to the roundabout itself from certain other directions. This actually happens at rush hour in some places. To solve this problem, some have "part time traffic lights" fitted, which convert the roundabout into a series of T-junctions when traffic load requires it. However, this traffic load is almost certainly a lot higher than what a 4-way stop could handle.

[taxguykarl]

Strong argument for more roundabouts.

[katzklaw]

i was always told that the rule at 4 way stops was "whoever got there first goes first. if multiple parties reach the stop at the same time, whoever is on the right goes first."

of course this doesn't work in the unlikely scenario that 4 different people all pulled up to the stop at the exact same moment... in that case someone would have to just go first i guess... but otherwise that's what i've always done... altho i did end up T-boning someone once because i was pulling into a shopping center and they had a stop sign and i did NOT... and they didn't stop at all... didn't even slow down... in heavy rain. i slid right into em.

[notalwaysright]

The problem around here with roundabouts is that some are big, with two lanes inside. I think I understand the rules, but I'm not positive. Like, if I need to get to any exit other that the first one, I need to be in the inside lane. Then I stay in that lane until my exit, but at that point I need to cross over another lane. I believe that anyone in that lane should also be exiting, so we would not hit each other. But I've had times where the person in the inside lane tries to stay inside the roundabout, and it's scary. But the smaller ones are excellent, especially the ones meant to slow down traffic in residential areas.

[Jetfire]

My city is building a 2 lane roundabout this summer. It'll connect a busy street to an old 2 lane highway, and on the other side to a feeder lane to the mall. When it's done, it should alleviate traffic on the next street up. The highway itself isn't busy any more since they realligned the Trans Canada to go further south.

But it IS the first 2 lane roundabout in the city; so everyone is expecting absolute chaos once it's done this fall. We definitly need that traffic connection, but getting people used to it is going to be 'interesting'. The roundabout will have 2 lanes, and 4 entrances.

[An Haddock]

The biggest problem with the 4 way stops here, especially the busy ones, is when people just randomly wave someone else through. It throws off the whole rhythm.

I hate that. We have a bunch of 4-ways back in the suburbs and I see it happen all the time. The other person gets to the intersection first. I get there a few seconds later. They wave me on.

NO. It's your turn. Stop screwing things up and just GO. You're not doing me a favor - you're slowing us both down.


I also hate this when I'm a pedestrian crossing a street. If it's a back street, that's one thing... but if I'm trying to cross the main drag in town and I'm not using the clearly-marked crosswalks, you don't have to stop for me and I'm fine with that.

The best is when I'm waiting to cross the street and there's like 20 cars that go by, then the LAST guy in line decides he's the one who's going to stop... and there's no one behind him. Do you really think you're doing me a favor, dude? It's clear roadway for a mile behind you - why would you bother stopping?

[siskaren]

i was always told that the rule at 4 way stops was "whoever got there first goes first. if multiple parties reach the stop at the same time, whoever is on the right goes first."

I'm willing to bet that what the minivan driver was thinking was that she did get there before Catwoman because she was considering her stop to be when she stopped behind the car that was at the stop sign rather then her having to actually stop at the stop sign itself. I've seen this same scenario so many times, it's the only explanation I can come up with.

[Blue Ginger]

If you think 2 lane roundabouts are bad, have a look at these ones in Melbourne, Australia. Remember that we drive on the left.

There are a number of others, but I have to deal with these 2 the most.

- Elizabeth Street/Flemington Road, Melbourne - 4 major roads with 2 minor roads and 3 tram lines. There are now traffic lights on all approaches to help ease the amount of accidents that were happening. But it is still an accident black spot.

- Mount Alexander Road/Keilor Road, Essendon - 4 major roads with a tram line running through the middle. I used to work near this one and had a weekly tally of screeching brakes. Highest count was 12. It was also a not unknown for people to follow the tram through the roundabout.

[wolfie]

I have waved people on when I got to a 4-way stop before they did, but this would only be in cases where I needed the space they were occupying in order to complete my passage through the intersection.

Example: I'm making a right turn at a 4-way stop. As I approach the intersection while hugging the left curb, a car is approaching from the right and will arrive slightly after I do. I'll need to hug the left curb of the street I'm turning into (i.e. use the space the car is occupying) in order to avoid excessive "curbing" of the peak of the corner (i.e. I'd still climb the curb, but at least I wouldn't knock down stuff that's close to the corner, such as stop signs, lamp posts, or fire hydrants). Until the car goes (even though I have the right of way, having arrived first), I CAN'T go.

After all, 4-way stops are usually found on streets where if I weren't covered under the "except local delivery" exemption, I wouldn't be ALLOWED to be there, so they aren't designed for 18 wheelers.

[Chromatix]

I don't think roundabouts and trams are a good combination in general. It would need to be a fairly large-radius circle for the tram to be capable of following it in the normal way, and allowing the tram to take any kind of shortcut destroys the flow and therefore the entire point of the layout.

They aren't combined in Helsinki, which has a lot of tram lines; at least one junction has very nearly got a Grand Union set of tramlines across it, with only one arc missing - and it's just an ordinary crossroads with traffic lights.

I don't think they're combined in Britain either, though I haven't spent a lot of time in most of the cities that have trams.

I *have* seen a railway line which follows a road, and which takes a shortcut through te middle of a roundabout. In Helsinki, no less. But it's very rarely used - it connects the national network to the metro line, which are otherwise physically separate, and is used only to deliver new rolling stock to the metro. I strongly suspect that temporary road closures are involved.