Complaining about S&M.

[BlackIronCrown]

Yeah, really. As I said, they were self-proclaimed regulators of the One True Way Of S&M, and had a very short list of people that would talk to them... those being the ones who agreed with their 'flavor' of practically Consensual-Gor (as in the novels) style S&M. Makes me f'ing sick, personally.

*snort* Ah, the Goreans. Gotta love 'em. They are practically the "Write Your Own Stupid" part of BDSM. I have not yet met one Gorean who's practices and/or mental state did not leave me going "Que?"

The pity is that the early books are not so bad - halfway decent Lin Carter or Burroughs pastiche material. Later on, it just got....yeah. How about no?

[MinimaMagistra]

*snort* Ah, the Goreans. Gotta love 'em. They are practically the "Write Your Own Stupid" part of BDSM.

In googling to allay my confusion from all the Gor stuff that was going over my head, I ran across two phrases: "YKINOK" and "YKIOK,IJNMK". If these are absolute common knowledge, forgive me. I just found them fascinating. The first stands for "Your Kink Is Not OK". It does not condemn another person's kink, as it might sound. Rather, it condemns those who condemn kink not their own. That sounds a lot like what I found out about Gor, beyond that it's a complete mindset for them, beyond an activity or even a lifestyle. I would caution Gor's detractors to keep the phrase in mind, too. Their life choices are their thing. They're not hurting anyone, as ironically as the phrase may be used. The only place they go wrong is when they talk shit about folks-not-them. So long as they don't vent their spew at me, they're fine in my book.

"YKIOK,IJNMK" is a much friendlier sentiment, though harder to type. Your Kink Is OK, It's Just Not My Kink. Acceptance and respect for all, without any need to conform. Like hippies in latex.

[jayel]

I don't have a very strong opinion about this either way. If I had seen it, I would have probably gawked a moment and then ran to tell whoever I was with. I would not really have been offended. But I will say this: Some things are of an intimate nature and do not need to be displayed publicly. While this dom and sub-on-a-leash may have been acting on some very intimate parts of their relationship, so is my husband and I making love. But we don't do this in public, because it's an intimate expression of love between us that no one else needs to be privy to.

To all of you who are saying "You go girls!" and "It's no one else's business", would you say the same thing if you saw a straight couple making out on a chair in the store? Or even cuddling, maybe sitting in each other's lap? Or would you think it was innapropriate for a pulic setting and tell them to get a room? You probably don't want to know what goes on behind my closed bedroom doors, even though you'd see it as part of a healthy marriage relationship.

It seems to me there is a lot of pressure to be accepting of this sort of thing. God forbid you criticize anyone who acts differently than you do, that would make you intolerant. But you can approve of someone's actions without needing to see them. And you can admit that something is innapropriate for a particular circumstance without being critical. I'm just sayin'.

[zzapp the witch]

I've got you all beat. I am SO freaky, I mean SO INSANELY FREAKY. Nobody can dress up weirder and more attention getting than this:









I don't wear socks that match. Or even coordinate with each other nor with anything else I'm wearing. Seriously, I get more weird looks and comments and treated like I'm "special", just from socks.

But really, I do love to wear my chainmaille in public. None of mine is functional in the traditional sense, mostly ornamental with a chance of defending against some minor slashing attacks. Oh yeah, and my maille-patched jeans. Those are the bomb-diggidy, yo. (Or whatever it is you whippersnappers are saying these days.)

Mysty, I once wore an old rough-woven polyester bell-bottomed body suit (the kind when you walk too fast you catch on fire) to school. It was white with neon green and bright yellow plaid. My aunt used to wear it when she went to the roller disco when she was a teen. I still think that outfit's pretty cool.

Kudoes to those girls. I'm trying to figure out a comfortable leash-type pattern for a gal I see at the Saturday Market....I'm almost thinking of getting the leather quilted with a cotton backing and then appliqueing the chain on top.....lol any suggestions from people who wear leashes more than I would be great.

[GingerBiscuit]

Just waiting for the days siomeone tells us WE'RE not doing our kink right.

The boy will squash 'em.

I'm a bit more realxed about public displays of affection really, as long as no-ones hand is down anyones pants I won't care if someone is kissing, cuddling in public. Also I won't care if someones on a leash in public (I have been, in the past) or in a gimp mask, or like Lady Latex i n a latex burka.

Doma nd sub, is often not just about the sex, but about the life together as well, so if they want to display their affection in that way who am I to judge? I don't see it as similar to making out at al, just a public display of affection.
For a lot of people those aren't private parts of their sex life, they are necessary aspects of their relationship. Less like making out, more like holding hands.

[JustADude]

I would caution Gor's detractors to keep the phrase in mind, too. Their life choices are their thing. They're not hurting anyone, as ironically as the phrase may be used. The only place they go wrong is when they talk shit about folks-not-them. So long as they don't vent their spew at me, they're fine in my book.

My big problem is that the Gorean novels are, in their essence, based around the principles of Stockholm Syndrome combined with the twisted idea that society can tell better than the individual what that person needs and wants. They take people who have a weak sense of self, put them in a situation they're powerless to change, where they can't even control how they place their hands when they sit and they're told that they have no choice but to accept whatever is done to them, and force them to comply until they eventually give in completely.

The idea of glorifying that kind of systematic rape and brainwashing by aping it with a woman who gives her initial consent to the process gives me the screaming heebie-jeebies in a way I can't even begin to describe. Strict submission is one thing, but the ones I've met that claim to be Gorean-style took things to a point I was worried about the Subs' ability to function independantly if/when the relationship broke apart.

To all of you who are saying "You go girls!" and "It's no one else's business", would you say the same thing if you saw a straight couple making out on a chair in the store? Or even cuddling, maybe sitting in each other's lap? Or would you think it was innapropriate for a pulic setting and tell them to get a room? You probably don't want to know what goes on behind my closed bedroom doors, even though you'd see it as part of a healthy marriage relationship.

It seems to me there is a lot of pressure to be accepting of this sort of thing. God forbid you criticize anyone who acts differently than you do, that would make you intolerant. But you can approve of someone's actions without needing to see them. And you can admit that something is inappropriate for a particular circumstance without being critical. I'm just sayin'.

Firstly, I consider holding a leash to be the equivalent of holding hands... snuggling a little at worst... and that's all they were doing, sitting quietly and reading with one holding the other's leash. Just wanted to get that point out there. That being said, I'd think it was rather sweet, and a good sign for today's youth, to see a straight, vanilla couple sitting next to each other snuggled up in a book-store love seat reading. I might roll my eyes, but I'd be smiling while I did it, ala . I certainly wouldn't go bitch because a young couple wanted to sit close to each other while they perused Manga.

There's absolutely nothing inappropriate about what they did unless you are intolerant of either homosexuals, S&M, or Goths in general.

[Hon'ya-chan]

My big problem is that the Gorean novels are,

Wait, is that the same thing as the Barsoom Novels??

[jayel]

There's absolutely nothing inappropriate about what they did unless you are intolerant of either homosexuals, S&M, or Goths in general.

Just a reminder: I did say I had no strong opinion about this one way or another. My issues are more with the whole acceptance/intolerance mentality.

And yes, you can disagree with or disapprove of a behavior without being (gulp!) intolerant of the person or persons doing it. I am a Christian and some of my best friends are gays/ atheists/ slept around lots, and my unmarried younger sister has a seven month old baby and I love her dearly and we treat the father like family. I do not judge or lecture these people because they make choices or believe differently than I do. That is their choice, and I appreciate and enjoy our relationships regardless. I know some Christians are very critical and appear to be full of hatred toward certain groups and activities. But not all of us. And I'm not saying this so people will think "Oh what a nice person! She's a Christian and she's still willing to associate with heathens!" Please. I don't think that way. I'm just citing typical things that people claim Christians are intolerant toward, for examples. I get tired of being lumped into the intolerant category, and wanted to state for the record that just disagreeing or disapproving does not necessarily make you intolerant.

[Rapscallion]

Wait, is that the same thing as the Barsoom Novels??

Most definitely not. The Barsoom novels are by Edgar Rice Burroughs (author of Tarzan) and are a fine example of classic science fiction. They are immensely readable to even young teens, and they don't dwell on the animal lusts involved in many modern novels, instead concentrating on the pure love that would drive a man to wade through gore ten times over to rescue his princess.

The Gor novels are shit.

I hope this clarifies things for you.

Rapscallion

[Hon'ya-chan]

The Gor novels are shit.

I hope this clarifies things for you.

Rapscallion

Shit as in Human Feces, or Horse Dung, or....?