In which religion fails

[Victoria J]

No - this isn't an anti-religious post. It's just that today's weirdness has a religious theme...

The Answer to their prayers - or not

One of my customers today was a Romanian family. The older generation spoke/understood no English, a younger daughter or granddaughter interpreted.

They wanted to know if they could get help towards food/rent/etc. the old woman prompted her granddaughter to ask - and then started praying. Rocking back and forth, chanting with her hands together...

Unfortunately - because of their nationality they really can't get much. (I could only suggest a church that does food parcels, and a couple of places that may help them with fares back to Romania. I also got to explain that they actually have no right to be in the country at all). I've never been hailed as the answer to someone's prayers before - and I feel a bit bad that I just gave more bad news.

I was pleased when they went between the guilt (deliberately and accidentally applied) and the language barrier. Worst was that I managed to find a leaflet about one thing in Romanian - and the young women got very excited and started animatedly reading it to the older ones. 12 pages long - and I had to sit there while she read.

Some gods are fallible

We ask everyone we see to fill in a form with their ethnicity/religion/language/age/whether they are disabled/sexual orientation. It helps us get money to see people, and helps us know if there are people we're missing out. We get some odd answers.

The best is from the man having a loud argument with himself in the waiting room :

Religion : Kevin Keegan / Football
If you cannot speak English, what is your preferred language : The language of love

Thankfully he does speak English so I was not forced to attempt communication in the language of love

One of my co-workers suggested that he find a new god as Keegan had lost the successful touch (I know nothing about sport so I can't really comment). I argued that this would be as bad as abandoning God because of earth quakes. You have to stick with your god regardless - even if you are insane !

Victoria or J

[rerant]

I'm wondering why the people in the first story can't get much help based on their nationality.
I know about restrictions on aid and the like as I also volunteer at the largest food bank in this city and we have a large advocacy department that will help with housing, clothing, furniture, jobs, etc., but I've never heard of nationality being a barrier to assistance.
Then again I've not been at this particular place for very long, so there's a lot I still don't know.

The only nationality restrictions I am aware of are for Muslims. And that's not so much a restriction in the sense that we won't help them, but rather that it is generally preferred by the Muslim community that they be referred to Muslim organisations, and their resources are typically much more limited than ours. However they do offer better services for those who have specific Muslim diets and still require food bank services. We just give food for a healthy diet, and don't really section off different diet requirements, whereas the Muslim organizations are much better at this than we are.

[Victoria J]

I'm wondering why the people in the first story can't get much help based on their nationality.
I know about restrictions on aid and the like as I also volunteer at the largest food bank in this city and we have a large advocacy department that will help with housing, clothing, furniture, jobs, etc.,

They were looking for government help.

I don't know any charities that give housing itself. (Actually not quite true - I know some women's shelters make a small number of places available to women with unresolved immigration status, and there's a local charity that houses people with alcohol problems).

The UK government will help - directly finding housing if you have children or are ill or pregnant etc. Paying towards rent for anyone on a low income. Giving money to buy food. This is all dependant on immigration status - and Romanians are in a very odd position. They can legally come to the UK and look for work, they can't just accept work or get any government assistance. After 3 months they are meant to leave.

Charities give a lot of help with housing. Shelters, housing associations, etc. But these generally have links to government funding. Housing Association houses are allocated by the local councils. Shelters are funded by claiming rent payments from the government.

Some communities fund their own charities to help destitute people. Some churches help (but with food not money or housing). There isn't really a large rich Romanian community able to help the small number struggling. The average person from that country probably lives under the poverty line.

Apologies for the boring seriousness.

I did feel sorry for them. They will hopefully now at least not be hungry, and be able to approach places for financial assistance to return to their own country.

Victoria J

[ArcticChicken]

They can legally come to the UK and look for work, they can't just accept work or get any government assistance. After 3 months they are meant to leave.

Wait...what?

[powerboy]

That is one hell of a messed up system. They could look but an accept. WTF?

[TryNotToBeThatOne]

<snip>
Religion : Kevin Keegan / Football

Around here Basketball is the 2nd religion of choice. And altars (aka TVs) sprout like dandelions this time of year (March Madness, aka ACC and NCAA men's & women's tournaments).

[Mark Healey]

That is one hell of a messed up system. They could look but an accept. WTF?

I'd imagine that the policy was made so that professionals could come to inteview and then return home while they and their new employer work out the legalities of immigration.

[Victoria J]

I'd imagine that the policy was made so that professionals could come to inteview and then return home while they and their new employer work out the legalities of immigration.

Kind of.

It's weird, and complicated. And remarkably dull.

WARNING - None of the following is remotely entertaining or amusing.

Countries that are part of the European Economic Area have rights according to European treaties. They have the right to go to other EEA countries to work, and are not meant to be discriminated against. So if you are from, say, Italy you can come to the UK and work. You can also claim any government assistance a UK citizen can.

Some new countries joined the EEA who were all rather poorer than the existing countries. They are known as the A8 or accession countries. These people have slightly restricted rights - they are free to come and take work but must register this work. They can claim anything a UK person can while in work, but only after working and being registered for 12 months can they get assistance if they lose the job or become ill.

Then 2 more countries joined - Lithuania and Romania. It was believed that too many people would come from those countries - not least because they already supply many migrant workers including illegal workers. They are less likely to be highly skilled. They are comparatively poor - so even low paying jobs can enable money to be sent home.

So they have the standard right under the EEA treaties to come and look for work - they do not need any specific permission to do so (though may need entry visas). If they find work they can only accept it legally if they get permits as either highly skilled workers or seasonal migrant workers. They get no government assistance. After 3 months they have no right to remain in the UK under the EEA treaty - they'd need specific permission from the UK goverment.

It's a mess. It puts them in the ridiculous permission of being able to come to the country legally then suddenly become illegal without any documentation at any stage. It also means they can come over, spend all their money looking for work and become stranded.

Victoria J

[Gurndigarn]

They wanted to know if they could get help towards food/rent/etc. the old woman prompted her granddaughter to ask - and then started praying. Rocking back and forth, chanting with her hands together...

May well be a cultural thing (no clue for sure, but I've seen cultures that are quick to invoke supernatural help).

[RetailWorkhorse]

I almost wrote in to ask if maybe the Romanians were part of The Travelers*, but I realized you're UK based.





*The Travelers are roaming gypsies of the worst kind, they're the ones that actually DO rip ya off, unlike the other honorable gypsies who actually follow bloodline doctrine. To give you some idea of what the scammers are like, look up a show that aired on FX called The Riches and take a good look at the family they were running from. You mention you're a traveler (note the little "t") and some people around these parts (Appalachian Mountains) will assume you're a member of the rip-offs. Heh, THAT was fun explaining my family's wayward ways. -_-

[marasbaras]

language of love

Reminds me of that great old John Cusack movie ... Better of Dead.

TWO DOLLARS! I WANT MY TWO DOLLARS!

[Victoria J]

I almost wrote in to ask if maybe the Romanians were part of The Travelers*, but I realized you're UK based.

I did wonder if they were gypsies (just based on appearance).

I would not however be negative towards Romanian gypsies - they are hugely discriminated in their own country, including being subject to physical attack. The UK has refused to recognise this (and will not grant asylum in any cases) despite incidents such as someone being set a light because they were a gypsy.

I would also add that I have gypsy blood, from my mother's side of the family. My mother recently had the charming experience of being in a pub with someone Romanian who talked at some length about how gypsies should be killed.

I appreciate your attempt to seperate out the scamming "Travellers" from other gypsies - but the best way to do that is to identify them as scammers, not by their background. It is likely that travellers from Romania are gypsies. I do not believe that you should judge all by the behaviour of some.

Now, can I interest you in some clothes pegs I've made ?

Victoria J

[RayvenQ]

They were looking for government help.

I don't know any charities that give housing itself. (Actually not quite true - I know some women's shelters make a small number of places available to women with unresolved immigration status, and there's a local charity that houses people with alcohol problems).

The UK government will help - directly finding housing if you have children or are ill or pregnant etc. Paying towards rent for anyone on a low income. Giving money to buy food. This is all dependant on immigration status - and Romanians are in a very odd position. They can legally come to the UK and look for work, they can't just accept work or get any government assistance. After 3 months they are meant to leave.

Charities give a lot of help with housing. Shelters, housing associations, etc. But these generally have links to government funding. Housing Association houses are allocated by the local councils. Shelters are funded by claiming rent payments from the government.

Some communities fund their own charities to help destitute people. Some churches help (but with food not money or housing). There isn't really a large rich Romanian community able to help the small number struggling. The average person from that country probably lives under the poverty line.

Apologies for the boring seriousness.

I did feel sorry for them. They will hopefully now at least not be hungry, and be able to approach places for financial assistance to return to their own country.

Victoria J

Doesn't surprise me that they didn't get help, I'm a UK citizen and a while back I was homeless and I got told, quite straight to my face that a single male doesn't have much priority.

Also, I'm partly descended from Romanians too, and I quite Abhor the term Gypsie because of the negative connotations (and quite incorrect too)in this country, I instead, if they are Romanian, call them the proper term which is Romani.

[Victoria J]

Doesn't surprise me that they didn't get help, I'm a UK citizen and a while back I was homeless and I got told, quite straight to my face that a single male doesn't have much priority..

True. You can't get help directly with housing - but you might get help paying the rent if you find something.

In this case they would be in priority need anyway - they had children. Social services may give them emergency help because of this (though at least technically could decide to only help the children) - but will only help them to return to Romania.

Also, I'm partly descended from Romanians too, and I quite Abhor the term Gypsie because of the negative connotations (and quite incorrect too)in this country, I instead, if they are Romanian, call them the proper term which is Romani.

I do see your point. "Gypsies" most certainly are no from Egypt, and it can be seen as offensive in the same way as "paki" for people who were largely not even from Pakistan. However it is the most recognised term and I didn't want to confuse anything further.

I understood the most correct term was "Roma" but may be wrong.

Victoria J

[RayvenQ]

True. You can't get help directly with housing - but you might get help paying the rent if you find something.

In this case they would be in priority need anyway - they had children. Social services may give them emergency help because of this (though at least technically could decide to only help the children) - but will only help them to return to Romania.



I do see your point. "Gypsies" most certainly are no from Egypt, and it can be seen as offensive in the same way as "paki" for people who were largely not even from Pakistan. However it is the most recognised term and I didn't want to confuse anything further.

I understood the most correct term was "Roma" but may be wrong.

Victoria J

Roma and Romani are the same I think, and by negative connotation I meant the image that most people get of them being people who live in caravans, leave trash about, are disruptive and generally anti social, which isn't what the Roma/Romani are.

I agree that families should get priority, Hell, if I was getting a place at the expense of a family going without, I'd give it up for them in an instant, it took me 7 months of being homeless (during winter last year) and long hard work and a lot of luck to get the place I did, even then I was only just lucky.

It does irk me somewhat though that Immigrants from other countries seem to get a higher priority than others (Not that I have a problem with Immigrants, it's the differentiating treatment that bothers me)