But i'm (insert nationality here)

[Chanlin]

I can't count the number of times I've wanted to be able to just pop, shock, or otherwise do something incredibly mean spirited to the person at the other end of my phone for flat out idiotic ignorance or mean spiritedness on their part just for someone being different.

I've spoken with people I consider to be the worst kinds of prejudiced bastards. On the flip side of the coin I've talked to some of the best people in the world who have been very selfless and kind and go that extra mile to make their transaction go smoothly.

This may be a bit off topic, but I think as a call center employee we tend to get to see the worst of society more often than the best because people by nature are more apt to complain about things than they are to praise them.

[Gurndigarn]

Our tour guide in the UK was just flabbergasted when she found out that the whole of Scotland could fit in New Mexico and have room left over!

You could actually fit the entire British Isles into New Mexico. And another sixty square kilometers of somewhere else, too. Wait, that's what you get when you depend on Wiki for your info. If you believe the area listed in metric, New Mexico is bigger. If you believe that the area listed in non-metric is accurate, then the isles are bigger. Either way, it's pretty close.

[Damien]

New Zealand is a beautiful country, attracting many tourists and working holidayers from all over the world. In my experiences, Americans come in two flavours.

1 - Typical brash, camera-weilding, rather obnoxious souls who are stunned things aren't exactly the same as home and complain bitterly about it (if you liked home so much why are you here?). The ones that give the rest of you the bad name.

2 - Salt of the earth, friendly, cope-with-anything, willing to DO anything, outgoing and fun people. These Yanks are friendly to EVERYONE and have an awesome time doing absolutely anything.

I don't know why you only seem to come in these two flavours. I guess there are more moderate ones, they just don't stand out. But yeah, Americans do seem to be either the 'typical tourist' type or just really great people, nothing in between.

It is my firm hope that the second type outnumber the first. Surveys have not been done. I remain firm in the conviction that it must be true, because if it's not ... I weep.

i have found this to be true here in Japan - thankfully i have seen mostly no. 2 - and geez they are fun to be around!

[Mark Healey]

New Zealand is a beautiful country, attracting many tourists and working holidayers from all over the world. In my experiences, Americans come in two flavours.

1 - Typical brash, camera-weilding, rather obnoxious souls who are stunned things aren't exactly the same as home and complain bitterly about it (if you liked home so much why are you here?). The ones that give the rest of you the bad name.

2 - Salt of the earth, friendly, cope-with-anything, willing to DO anything, outgoing and fun people. These Yanks are friendly to EVERYONE and have an awesome time doing absolutely anything.

I don't know why you only seem to come in these two flavours. I guess there are more moderate ones, they just don't stand out. But yeah, Americans do seem to be either the 'typical tourist' type or just really great people, nothing in between.

It is my firm hope that the second type outnumber the first. Surveys have not been done. I remain firm in the conviction that it must be true, because if it's not ... I weep.

Have you made note of the ages in the two groups. I'd be willing to be that the first group skews older than the second. And I think it's unavoidable. When we get older we get set in our ways. And since most old people are on welfare they get an entitlement attitude.

[lineswine]

the United States of America is very nearly 3x the size of the entire continent of Europe.

Wanna bet on that, sport? Try measuring from say, the most northern point of Finland to, say Gibraltar, or the Algarve to eastern Romania.

We learn about other countries in school, but a good chunk of it falls out our ears the next day because it's just not relevant to our daily lives.

Neither is it relevant to the daily lives of Canadians, but they seem to retain information about other countries well enough

Yes, that was a damn stupid question, but cultural isolation is a fact of life when you're dealing with a country where you can drive for 1000 miles (1600km) and barely make it 1/3rd of the way across.

I believe Canada to be pretty big too. Cultural isolation is more a function of cultural indolence/arrogance, more than anything

You could actually fit the entire British Isles into New Mexico. And another sixty square kilometers of somewhere else, too. Wait, that's what you get when you depend on Wiki for your info. If you believe the area listed in metric, New Mexico is bigger. If you believe that the area listed in non-metric is accurate, then the isles are bigger. Either way, it's pretty close.

Yes, but there is one major point about New Mexico...there's sod-all there.
The place is a vast, empty desert.
Hell, just one city in Scotland - Glasgow - has a greater population than the whole of N.M.
It ain't about the square miles, it's about what's in them

[KhirasHY]

Marasbaras I couldn't agree with you more. I've never been out of the country but damn sure if I ever do (I'd like to see Germany or maybe Japan some day) I intend to at least be a good guest unlike so many of my fellow countrymen that give the rest of us a bad name.

For what its worth I'm sorry for the idiots that ruin things for those of us that have manners.

The trick to international travel (and even domestic travel) is to pay attention to two important lessons:

1) Be polite, be understanding, and most of all, be knowledgeable. Especially in places like London, Paris, Rome, and/or Tokyo, you are around people who are barraged by tourists year-round. They are besieged by questions nonstop about things they barely pay attention to any more after living around them so long, so know a bit about where you're going. Believe me, a tourist who knows what they are doing is a rarity, but is appreciated more often than not.

2) It's hard, but try to learn some phrases in the language of the place where you're visiting. At the very least, carry around a pocket dictionary or something. Some people may speak English where you're going, but expecting them to do so is plain rude. At the very least, being able to ask "Excuse me, I'm sorry, but do you speak any English? My (language) is not very good yet" can go a long way. Especially if you're part of a tour group, you're going to most likely be surrounded by people who won't do even this, and you might actually get a genuine smile for doing so.

New Zealand is a beautiful country, attracting many tourists and working holidayers from all over the world. In my experiences, Americans come in two flavours.

1 - Typical brash, camera-weilding, rather obnoxious souls who are stunned things aren't exactly the same as home and complain bitterly about it (if you liked home so much why are you here?). The ones that give the rest of you the bad name.

2 - Salt of the earth, friendly, cope-with-anything, willing to DO anything, outgoing and fun people. These Yanks are friendly to EVERYONE and have an awesome time doing absolutely anything.

I'd like to hope that I'm a #2 (wait...that doesn't sound right ), but then again, I don't consider myself a tourist...I'm a traveller.

/I loved New Zealand, btw...
//Nearly fell over laughing when I asked someone what the lookout tower in Auckland was called.
///"The Penis of Auckland", btw, was the fantastic answer. He also made sure I knew it was bigger than Sydney's "wang", and was the example of why Aucklanders were more impressive. I loved that guy...

Edit: Wow...that post came off a bit high and mighty, I think...but I'm too lazy to change it, so meh

[Canarr]

I seem to be doing this a lot lately, but, Hemily, remember that the United States of America is very nearly 3x the size of the entire continent of Europe.

Actually, they are about the same size; the continent of Europe and the U.S.A. are both not quite 10,000,000 (ten million) square kilometers.

[Rapscallion]

Ok, folks. This thread's heading towards heated territory. Arguing about the size of different areas is firstly causing ill will, and secondly it's not really relevant to the conversation. If you want to start talking about nationalities being rude/insular, we have Fratching for that.

Final warning before thread closure. Back on track, please.

Rapscallion

[Canarr]

Okay, sorry; didn't mean it as an argument, just couldn't resist the urge to be a smartass...

[Rapscallion]

Not necessarily yourself - it's a general note for the thread.

Rapscallion

[JustADude]

Wanna bet on that, sport? Try measuring from say, the most northern point of Finland to, say Gibraltar, or the Algarve to eastern Romania.

I stand corrected. Apparently, somehow, I was given the size of the USA in Kilometers while the size of Europe was in Miles. I really dunno HOW the hell that happened. Further double checking states the area of the USA as ~9,826,630 sq.km while the area of Europe is ~10,050,000 sq.km.



I'm not trying to brag or start a Fratching argument, just point out the fact that the average American has to travel one hell of a lot further to get to the closest culture with significant social differences than your average European, and they have to fly transoceanic to reach a first-world, industrialized nation that doesn't have English as one of the common conversational languages.

[Gurndigarn]

Yes, but there is one major point about New Mexico...there's sod-all there.
The place is a vast, empty desert.
Hell, just one city in Scotland - Glasgow - has a greater population than the whole of N.M.
It ain't about the square miles, it's about what's in them

This world has a strange way of making those pointless locations important. Most people thought the US was crazy for paying a whopping 7.2 million dollars for Alaska (in 1867 dollars, right after the civil war)... until the gold rush, and later black gold rush. No, New Mexico may not have a lot of people or technology right now. But disparaging things were said about the plain states before people moved there. Very disparaging things were said about Utah and Nevada. All it takes is a little bit— say, solar technology getting a bit more cost-efficient— and it can become on of the most valuable states we have.

Anyway, that's not a shot at Scotland. It's on the list of places I'ld like to visit if I ever become rich and famous.* It's just a point about the differences in size and scope between Europe and its progeny.

* On second thought, famous probably isn't worth the pain. I'll settle for merely rich.

[Canarr]

It's just a point about the differences in size and scope between Europe and its progeny.

I read a quote a long time ago, don't remember who it was from, that was rather fitting, I think:

"The difference between Europe and the US is that Europeans think 100 miles is a long distance, and Americans think 100 years is a long time."

[Becks]

2) It's hard, but try to learn some phrases in the language of the place where you're visiting. At the very least, carry around a pocket dictionary or something. Some people may speak English where you're going, but expecting them to do so is plain rude. At the very least, being able to ask "Excuse me, I'm sorry, but do you speak any English? My (language) is not very good yet" can go a long way. Especially if you're part of a tour group, you're going to most likely be surrounded by people who won't do even this, and you might actually get a genuine smile for doing so.

If I can't manage how to say a few (family friendly) words in whatever language of whatever country I manage to go to, I'll bring along an interpreter. God, I love my friends.

"The difference between Europe and the US is that Europeans think 100 miles is a long distance, and Americans think 100 years is a long time."

I used to have that quote as one of my away messages. I wish I could remember who said it, and I'm too damn lazy to google.

[Jester]

If it's a NATIONAL holiday, and you LIVE in the nation, then the holiday DOES apply to you. It's a stat. If you work on that day, legally you should be getting at least time and a half, or is it double time? (unless they give you an extra day off).

Depends on where you live and what work you do. If you work for the government, yes, but not all companies nor all business work like this. Certainly the food service industry does not.

Nope, legally, you get minimum wage, unless it's over 40 hours for the week, then it's time and a half, unless you're exempt salary, then you're screwed.

Again, varies from company to company, business to business, and place to place. There is NOT one overlying rule.

kinda makes ya scratch your head, and wonder if they learn anything about the world outside of the US at their schools.

As an American, I have to tell you that a lot of Americans really don't learn much about the world outside the U.S. Hell, a lot of them don't know much about things IN the U.S. I have been asked some ignorant questions by Americans about both my home state of Arizona ("Do you have to go miles to the nearest store?" No, moron, Phoenix IS the 5th largest city in the nation, thank you very much.) and my current home of Key West ("Do you take American money?" Yes, idiot, this is still part of Florida, which is still part of the U.S., thanks.).

Hell, while not all or even most Americans are that stupid, many of them are a little clueless when it comes to non-American geography. And the rest of the world kind of expects us to be clueless now. When I met my Estonian roommate, he was shocked when I not only said I know where Estonia was, but described accurately where it was!

hehe, i doubt you'd ask about internet existing in europe though

You are giving people too much credit. Trust me, there are people out there who would probably ask something like "So, with all those castles, do you folks have internet?", etc., etc.

Maybe I am oversensitive but all the American bashing here is really offensive.

I don't see it at all as American bashing. I see it as bashing those Americans that are loud, obnoxious buffoons when they travel. There are also obnoxious Frenchmen, Brits, Russians, Czechs, Canadians Germans, Japanese, etc. I have dealt with all of them. I have also met tons of wonderful Americans, French, Brits, Russians, Czechs, Canadians, Germans, Japanese, etc. There are stupid assholes in every country, and some of them travel. And there are great people in every country, and some of them travel as well. But, human nature being what it is, people tend to remember the assholes far more clearly than they do the cool ones. So of course, if you deal with American tourists a lot, the ones that are going to stand out are the Ugly American stereotypes. Ditto with any country.

Hell, I LIVE in America and I deal with stupid American tourists. Daily. I have also met some of the greatest people here, and they too are American tourists. I think most people who work in tourist towns have had that experience, though not all of them realize it.

And back to your point, I really didn't see anyone (well, maybe one) truly American bashing. Most people here said they have dealt with both idiot Americans AND cool Americans. SCs come from all countries, folks, but so do cool people. Hell, look at this site for proof of the latter!

And you don't see that as antagonistic? That was a legit question. We don't have milk like that in US and she was curious about it.

I see it as more smartassy than antagonistic, but that's besides the point. The woman was displaying her ignornace not by asking about the milk in the bag so much as if they had refrigeration, which is, in fact, ignorant.

And by the way, you are wrong on one count: We DO have milk in a bag in the U.S. You won't normally see it in the grocery store, but in a lot of restaurants that serve a lot of milk (breakfast places, diners, etc.) they DO have large milk refrigerator/dispensers where the server just lifts a handle and milk pours out of a nozzle. Know what's in that dispenser? Right. A huge ole bag of milk. I know, having loaded more than my share of them in my days with Denny's and other such places.

And since most old people are on welfare they get an entitlement attitude.

Most old people are on welfare? Say what? How do you figure that? I can see you saying they are on pensions, or retired, or on Social Security, but on welfare? Well, no, they're not.

And while there are tons of old cranky people with entitlement issues, there are also tons of sweet older people that are just a pleasure to be around. Just like my earlier comments that SCs come from everywhere, they also come in all ages. I have met cranky young people and sweet old people.

Yes, but there is one major point about New Mexico...there's sod-all there.
The place is a vast, empty desert.
Hell, just one city in Scotland - Glasgow - has a greater population than the whole of N.M.
It ain't about the square miles, it's about what's in them

Okay then, take my home state of Arizona. Also a "vast, empty desert" by most people's calculations.

Yet it has more people than Scotland. It is growing faster in population than Scotland. And since you brought up Edinburgh, which is, I believe, Scotland's second largest city, allow me to point out that Tucson, Arizona's second largest city, has a larger population than Edinburgh. AND that Phoenix, Arizona's largest city, has a larger popular than Glasgow and Edinburgh combined. It is also the 5th largest city in the U.S., trailing only New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, and Houston. They have major sports teams, host large sporting events, are one of the premier destinations for conventions and vacations, and generally speaking, freakin' rock. And yet, just a few decades ago, Phoenix was just a small city in the middle of the desert with really nothing going on. All this in a "vast, empty desert."

Now, I am not here to bash Scotland. By all accounts, including that of my little sister's, it is a lovely place. Nor am I here to get in a pissing contest about "my home is better than your home." And far be it from me to stop anyone from making fun of New Mexico (which I often refer to as "a poor man's Arizona"). But I have to step up for my Southwestern brethren here. Just because their population is not booming now does not mean it is not ready to start. The history of its western neighbor Arizona attests to that. Also remember that Phoenix, Las Vegas, and Tucson have been the three fastest growing cities for the last couple of decades or so. Can it be much longer before people start looking elsewhere for their new home? Say, Albuquerque? Santa Fe? Las Cruces? Seems silly to some people, but then again, it wasn't that long ago that the very idea of Phoenix being anything more than a hot city and Vegas being anything more than a hot city with casinos seemed ludicrous.

So I am going to enjoy your country's Scotch, sir (ma'am?). But stop stomping on New Mexico. It's a lovely place. And besides, making fun of it is the job of all of us Zonies!