Another crack legal mind.

[Jester]

So three people come into The Bar today. They order drinks. As they appear to be 30 or under, I, being a good bartender and obeyer of the laws of the State of Florida, ask them for identification. They produce their cruise ship staff ID's. Hilarity ensues.

"I'm sorry, but I can't accept these for alcohol purchases," says yours truly.

They tell me that those are all they have. I do not doubt them, as I have been told that cruise ships will often hold on to the passports of their staff when they are in foreign ports (these people were not Americans). I don't know if they do this to guarantee that the staff will return to the ship or what, but it sucks for them when they get carded and do not have any proper, i.e., legal identification. I hate this, but this does not mean I am going to sell drinks to people who only have staff ID's. Sorry, sucks to be you, but ain't happening.

The one guy in the group of 3 pulls out a document that, I think, was some sort of immigration or visa document. He starts to explain what it is. Don't know what it is, don't care what it is, as it doesn't matter.

Very politely and apologetically: "I'm sorry, sir, but under Florida law, I can't accept that for alcohol purchases."

One of the women says that they have had no problem before when they've been in the bar. This well may be, but I do not control the actions of my coworkers, nor will I violate Florida law simply because 1. these people claim to have been in here before (unverifiable), and 2. claim that they were served without a problem by someone in here (also unverifiable...and a moot point, as it does not change the fact that they still do not have acceptable ID for alcohol purchases).

I apologize again, but explain that there is really nothing I can do.

At which point the guy, who is apparently the legal eagle in the group, brandishes the visa document and proclaims, "THIS is a legal document."

Which I never questioned. It very well may be a legal document. It probably is. It very well may be valid. It probably is. However....

"That well may be, but it is still not an ID that I can accept for alcohol purchases under the laws of the State of Florida."

To wit, it is not a passport, driver's license, state-issued ID card, or U.S. Armed Forces ID card, which are the ONLY things I can accept as proof of age for alcohol purchases under the laws of the State of Florida, in which I work, selling alcohol. I don't like the law, but it is the law, and I have to work under it.

In other words, fuck off, Your Honor.

None of which I got to (politely) explain to them, as they stormed off in a huff.

For which there was much joy in Mudville.

[Seshat]

This is why I maintain my driver's licence.

When I used to travel, I'd always keep one or the other concealed on my body, and the other readily accessible. The passport was used ONLY for the flight, and was the 'body' ID the rest of the time.

I've had people express curiousity about my Australian ID, but noone refused it. (Which might have caused some of them legal risk, depending on whether 'state issued id' is technically supposed to be 'a US state' or not.)

[SongsOfDragons]

I know you live in Floridaand not the potential state of my visit, but would you accept a British driver's licence? I might be having a trip to Maryland sometime in the next year and a half, and I'm paranoid for my passport.

[Duncan MacLeod]

I imagine most states in the US will accept a photo ID from a government body. The worst part of this story, is that the patron expected to use a "visa" which I presume has no photo, as his identification? That seems risky.

[EricKei]

(Which might have caused some of them legal risk, depending on whether 'state issued id' is technically supposed to be 'a US state' or not.)

You are correct in your assumption ^_^ In the US, "State-issued" means "issued by a US State", and, in certain cases, "issued by the State you are in". Anything else is considered Foreign... But a properly-marked Passport is always valid ID. My Dad used his US-issued Passport as ID even tho he was a native-born American and hadn't left the country for 20+ years (especially once he could no longer see well enough to drive (and yes, this actually stopped him from driving! )) all the time. The worst it got him was the occasional awkward look, but it was never rejected.

[PepperElf]

"THIS is a legal document."

So what?

Your W2's a legal document too. But it's not proof of ID (tho the DMV will accept it as proof of SSN). My DD214's a legal document... but I can't use it in place of my ID card either.

hell even a restraining order is a legal document.
but you can't use it to buy booze

[auntiem]

We used to keep the state liquor board folder at the register (laminated) that had a picture of every ID we could accept. This came in handy in just such situations.
As for the cruise ships holding the passports - I thought that was illegal. It sounds like not everyone had a green card or visa so wouldn't they technically risk deportation if they were in port w/o their passport? Or am I confusing countires again?

[PepperElf]

to be honest i'm not sure.... but from what i've read on some government sites, withholding passports is often associated with human trafficking.

[PatchO'Black]

Once again, the day is saved from ID (and possible IQ) deprived SG by that master of merriment, Jester!

*cues choir to sing Jester's famous filk, "Show ID"*

[Project_Mars]

Considering the term State can be used to talk about countries, I had thought it would be covered? Or maybe the term is being abandoned for "Government-issued ID" or something?

Either way, between passports and driver's licenses, foreigners on vacation should be covered.

[Andara Bledin]

I think I heard that ships will often hold the passports of personnel when stopping in foreign ports to stop said personnel from using the ship as a cheap form of travel to get to a destination they really want to stay, causing the ship to be understaffed.

I have no idea of the veracity of this information, however.

^-.-^

[bainsidhe]

The moment I saw who's thread this was, I immediately knew it would contain tales of would-be patrons without ID. Amusing (not!) how they try to tell you what is and isn't considered valid ID. As if you, the master of all things alcohol, haven't heard such arguments before.

[Jester]

I've had people express curiousity about my Australian ID, but noone refused it. (Which might have caused some of them legal risk, depending on whether 'state issued id' is technically supposed to be 'a US state' or not.)

I know you live in Floridaand not the potential state of my visit, but would you accept a British driver's licence? I might be having a trip to Maryland sometime in the next year and a half, and I'm paranoid for my passport.

Some clarification:

By state-issued ID, we are referring to Identification Cards (non-Drivers Licenses) issued by one of the 50 U.S. States (or a U.S. Territory).

By Driver's Licenses, we are referring to most any driver's licenses, including those from foreign lands. The limitation is we need to be able to understand it. So, if it is not in English, we need to have a working understanding of what we are looking at. Since I have a rudimentary knowledge of Spanish, DL's from Mexico, Spain, Paraguay, or other Spanish-speaking (or even Portuguese- or Italian-speaking) countries are fine, since I know what I'm looking at. Even some other DL's I am comfortable with, as I can get a basic grasp on certain things. But if I cannot determine that 1. it is a driver's license and 2. which date is your birth date, it isn't flying.

Important to note: under Florida law, we are allowed to refuse ANY identification we are not comfortable with, even if it is one of the four we are allowed to accept (driver's license, passport, state-issued ID, or US Armed Forces ID Card). If we for any reason doubt its veracity, authenticity, or its holder's identity, we are allowed (and even encouraged) to refuse to accept it. In other words, just because it is one of the four we DO accept, we still have the right to refuse it. If it is NOT one of the four considered acceptable, we can NOT accept it.

I imagine most states in the US will accept a photo ID from a government body.

Yes and no. Under Arizona and Florida law (the two places I have worked long-term and am familiar with the laws regarding alcohol purchases), we will accept a photo ID from a foreign government body as long as said ID is either a passport or a driver's license. There are, however, other photo ID's out there, and just because you have a photo ID issued by a government body does not mean we are going to (or even can, legally) accept it.

Some examples of government body-issued photo ID's we won't or can't accept for alcohol purchases: student ID's at state schools; hunting licenses; gun licenses; staff ID for government workers; etc. You get the point.

hell even a restraining order is a legal document.
but you can't use it to buy booze

And somehow I have no doubt that someone has tried. Probably several someones. Fortunately, they have not tried it with me.

As for the cruise ships holding the passports - I thought that was illegal. It sounds like not everyone had a green card or visa so wouldn't they technically risk deportation if they were in port w/o their passport? Or am I confusing countires again?

Don't know all the legalities about this, as I am an American living in America, so such things don't really concern me. Yes, I live in a town where we get a lot of people dealing with this, but *I'm* not risking potential legal problems!

I don't know if cruise ship companies holding staff members' ID's is illegal, but I am going to guess it is not, for several reasons.

*cues choir to sing Jester's famous filk, "Show ID"*

I'd be really impressed if you produced the song, or even a link to it.

Considering the term State can be used to talk about countries, I had thought it would be covered? Or maybe the term is being abandoned for "Government-issued ID" or something?

See above.

Either way, between passports and driver's licenses, foreigners on vacation should be covered.

You would think so.

Sadly, you would be very, very wrong.

Amusing (not!) how they try to tell you what is and isn't considered valid ID. As if you, the master of all things alcohol, haven't heard such arguments before.

Gee! It's not like I work in a job that requires me to know the law about such things, or that I have to sit through a seminar about it every four months, so frequently that I commented today to our usual alcohol seminar guru that I could probably give the whole presentation from memory...with my eyes closed....and while nine sheets to the wind.

[Racket_Man]

in my area there is a large Native American (Indian) population. even though the tribe issued ID cards (quasi-governmental) we were not allowed to accept them at the gas station.

one of the other items we used to get were prision wrist bands. even though they had a picture, SSN and a birthdate on them they were also not allowed even though they were "government issued".

[dalesys]

*cues choir to sing Jester's famous filk, "Show ID"*

I'd be really impressed if you produced the song, or even a link to it. .

Well, the band (obviously) should be Showaddywaddy.
And the words should be crucified on the frame of the "Doo Wah Diddy".

Inspiration passed to the perspired.