Another crack legal mind.

[Jester]

The idea that a state-issued ID that is virtually identical to a state-issued DL would be denied for only the fact that it's not a full DL baffles me.

I think part of it is that state-issued ID's are easier to forge than DL's, or something like that. Also, not all state ID's are identical to the DL's. Some are rather different. Just saying.

As for things that baffle me, I am completely baffled by the idea that someone is a legal adult once they turn 18, and they can enlist in the military, die for their country, pay taxes, vote, and run for political office--but they can't enjoy an alcoholic beverage for 3 years.

However, while I disagree philosophically with some of the alcohol laws that exist, I still have to work under them, and as long as I do, I am not going to fuck around.

But if you're not from the US and visiting, why wouldn't you have your passport anyway? ::curious:: And since passports are valid....

Passports are not very wallet-friendly. They are big and bulky, and not always easily fit into a pocket or whatever you may be hauling around with you. Many people prefer to leave them securely in their luggage in their hotel room. Also, as noted in different parts of this thread, losing a passport is a real concern, and cruise ship staff are often forced to leave their passport with the ship. Add to that the fact that many foreigners are used to their home country's alcohol laws, and don't really think about what they are going to have to deal with in the U.S.

[Dreamstalker]

The over-21 non-driving IDs here are identical save for the text across the top and Class designation.

[Jester]

The over-21 non-driving IDs here are identical save for the text across the top and Class designation.

True. But that doesn't change the fact that in some states, only ID cards issued from that state are acceptable for alcohol purchases. Florida, however, is not one of those. (I can and do take state-issued ID cards from other states.)

Does this make sense? Probably not. But don't ask me to explain laws, legislatures, or politicians. I can't and I won't.

[Radiohead]

A Massachusetts Liquor ID is a NON-Driver's Licence ID card that you can get if you don't have a license but want ID.

Thing is, you can get a regular plain vanilla "Massachusetts ID" card that extends -AFAIK- EXACTLY the same privileges as a liquor ID. The only different is obviously they won't give a liquor ID to someone under 21, but I don't see a reason for the separate Liquor ID since they'd have to check the age anyway.

So no, you don't NEED a Liquor ID in Mass. It's an alternate type of ID you can opt to get if you are 21 but do NOT have a drivers' license.

Actually, this is incorrect, and confusion on this topic is widespread. May I offer a correction?

In Massachusetts, you cannot sell to anyone under 21. You can take or refuse any ID or no ID, but if you sell to someone underage, you're toast.

There are four "safe harbor" forms of ID the provide an exception. If you take one of these and get fooled, you're covered:

--> Massachusetts Driver's license
--> Massachusetts Liquor ID
--> Passport (including US passport card)
--> Active US military ID

Out-of-state IDs are left off the list because the large student population is adept at fooling providers with fakes. Sorry, but that's been true for at least three decades.

The Liquor ID is provided for nonresidents (they can't get a Massachusetts license) and nondriving Massachusetts residents over 21 who want ID that is on the safe harbor list. Early on, they had trouble with workers at the Registry of Motor Vehicles altering dates of birth, so an application for a Liquor ID requires the approval of the RMV branch manager.

When the whole I-9 immigration employment eligibility system came into effect, nondriving Massachusetts residents under 21 needed ID for use on that form, so the powers-that-be created a separate "Massachusetts ID Card" for residents only. (I'm going to call it a "resident ID card" to avoid confusion.) You can get it if you're 14 or over, so long as you are a Massachusetts resident and you don't hold a driver's license. It does NOT require branch manager approval because the risk of fraud is lower. If you're a Massachusetts resident over 21 (and you don't have a license), you can hold a Liquor ID and a Resident ID at the same time. You might do that if the Liquor ID isn't acceptable as "Real ID" because it doesn't validate residential address - assuming the Federal government notices.

The Massachusetts ID (i.e., resident ID) card was never really contemplated for those over 21. It is a less reliable document than the Liquor ID. It IS legal proof of age (you even can use it to apply for a Liquor ID) but it is NOT on the "safe harbor" list because it doesn't require branch manager approval. Massachusetts providers rarely accept it (except by accident) because it gives them no protection, although you can often use it to purchase alcohol in other jurisdictions.

All this is by statute. Only the legislature or an initiative petition can change it. The provider, the RMV, and the ABCC are all powerless to do so, so there's no point in blaming them, but of course, people do anyway.

Hope this clear things up for you and anyone reading this via a search engine.