I cannot alter realty to fit your religion....

[ds_36]

I have a question that perhaps someone here can answer. Using any type of lights, electronics, etc., is forbidden on the Sabbath. I know that many hotels use the magnetic cards now, instead of keys. Is there a way to use keys on these doors? For an Orthodox Jew, using such a magnetic/computerized key on the Sabbath is strictly forbidden.

At least in Israel hotels generally tell you that you can request a regular mechanical key, if you'd like one because of that reason. Although I have no idea about hotels in other countries, that's probably a big consideration if they'll be staying at one over Shabbat.

The hotel was going to let him keep his room. He just had to pay the full rate. That was the crux of the issue. He didn't want to pay it and in the end elected to *travel* to another hotel 20 minutes away JUST to get a discount.

By travel I assume you mean walk. A few years ago I was much more interested in researching the exact rules of these things, yes walking like may not really be a big deal. Plenty of them probably walk further to synagouge every Shabbat...and personally I'm very good at walking, I'd have no trouble walking a mile.

I seriously will feel for the orthodox Jewish community when this time comes, for I don't think even their summer-house will be electronic free...I can't think of what they'd do when all doors become automatic. Technology at the price of culture can only be a bad thing...

If the door opens automatically without them having to do anything, it may be ok for them to use it...the rabbi would have to rule on that one. At the Western Wall in Jerusalem you have to pass through an airport style metal detector to gain access (for security purposes) obviously it has to be powered by being plugged into electricity. Yet the Rabbi has ruled that it is permissible to walk through it on Shabbat and the high holydays...so breaking the rules isn't necessarily breakin the rules. Here many Rabbis approve of you driving to synagouge on Shabbat, as long as it's only to synagouge I personally disagree with that.
There's all different levels of religiousness.

Lack of planning on your part....

Not the issue here at all, he did plan to be home before Shabbat started. A snow storm occuring was in no way caused by him, and he really couldn't have planned around it. Unless you think he should plan all his travelling for Monday, so there's no way for it to interfere with Shabbat. (Generally, even if Shabbat started while he was already travelling on the plane/train/bus/car it's permissible for him to keep travelling as long as he doesn't get off of that vehicle and enter another one).

I assume it was deleted, but to whomever said that Jews will do certain "work" Shabbat. Well you're partially correct, the word "work" is really a poor translation of a Hebrew word. So I don't know what you observed them doing (or even if they were religious) but what we consider work frequently doesn't coincide with what they are or aren't allowed to do on Shabbat.

And for the guy in the original post, he doesn't really seem to have really been an SC. He actually was put into a difficult situation, and since he can't travel on Shabbat (maybe not due to the same reasons that he couldn't travel previously) it's understandable why he would want and expect the discount rate on both nights. There's probably better ways for him to have handled it, and better people for him to have asked. You probably also could have handled it better, such as suggesting he talks to the hotel directly (ok, he probably wouldn't have been happy with that right away, either) or explaining that due to software limitations it's impossible for you to book him for more than one night.
Well, there's always two sides to every story.

[NightAngel]

Followers of this thread please read this:
http://www.customerssuck.com/board/s...2471#post92471

[Gravekeeper]

[Snark]

By travel I assume you mean walk. A few years ago I was much more interested in researching the exact rules of these things, yes walking like may not really be a big deal. Plenty of them probably walk further to synagouge every Shabbat...and personally I'm very good at walking, I'd have no trouble walking a mile.

No, by taxi as I mentioned at the end of the post.

And for the guy in the original post, he doesn't really seem to have really been an SC. He actually was put into a difficult situation, and since he can't travel on Shabbat (maybe not due to the same reasons that he couldn't travel previously) it's understandable why he would want and expect the discount rate on both nights.

His religious beliefs are his personal beliefs. He has no right to demand that another person or company conform to them.

You probably also could have handled it better, such as suggesting he talks to the hotel directly

I *did* tell him to do that. Please don't imply I'm not doing a good job because you did not read the entire post.

or explaining that due to software limitations it's impossible for you to book him for more than one night.

I DID tell him that too. As I clearly explained in my post.

I'm not meaning to snark here but I don't like nor appreciate you implying I'm not doing my job well when its clear you did not read my post before replying.

[/Snark]

[ds_36]

[Snark]
No, by taxi as I mentioned at the end of the post.

A) You didn't actually say he took a taxi, you said he saved $15 which was the cost of a taxi ride. If I don't buy a drink with lunch, saving $2 which is the cost of a bus ride here, it doesn't necessarily mean that I took the bus.
B) Do you actually know that he took a taxi or are you just assuming? As in did you actually see him call a cab or get in one?

[Snark]
His religious beliefs are his personal beliefs. He has no right to demand that another person or company conform to them.

Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. Plenty of other things are altered to fit people's personal belief systems. All I'm saying is it's understandable why he would be trying to get the same rate for both nights. I didn't necessarily say he was right or he should have recieved it.

[Snark]
I DID tell him that too. As I clearly explained in my post.

Actually I did, I didn't really say it correctly the first time, what I meant to say was that it probably would have been easier for everyone if you actually said those things sooner. Not that you didn't say them at all (us Jews like to be told things directly).

[Snark]
Please don't imply I'm not doing a good job because you did not read the entire post.

I never meant to say that you don't do a good job, people aren't perfect and make mistakes and learn from them. I'm sure you've occasionally made mistakes at your job, so don't try to make it sound like you're a super-hero or something. I also did say that he could've acted better, so don't tell me that I'm saying you are the only who acted incorrectly.

I don't mean to be rude or bash religions or anything, but does anyone mind if I ask WHY these particular restrictions apply to practicing Orthodox Jews on their Shabbat days? (Sorry, I hope that's the right term). What I know about the religion, you could fit on the head of a pin, so I'm just asking out of curiosoty.

http://www.jewfaq.org/shabbat.htm

[Knightmare]

Couldn't the SC get a special dispensation or something equavalent from a Rabbi? Does the Jewish faith have such a thing?



*Just hearing the words "special dispensation" makes me think of a George Carlin skit about eating hot dogs at the church picnic.

[imal'sheva]

Try these links, to understand the Jewish Sabbath.

http://www.religionfacts.com/judaism...ys/shabbat.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shabbat

[Gravekeeper]

A) You didn't actually say he took a taxi, you said he saved $15 which was the cost of a taxi ride. If I don't buy a drink with lunch, saving $2 which is the cost of a bus ride here, it doesn't necessarily mean that I took the bus.
B) Do you actually know that he took a taxi or are you just assuming? As in did you actually see him call a cab or get in one?

I assumed that because its the middle of a snowstorm and the other hotel is at least 15 minutes away by car during good weather. As I mentioned at the first of the post, he was stuck originally due to weather. A taxi was his only option. Unless you think he hiked through the snow with his luggage across town just to save $15?

Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. Plenty of other things are altered to fit people's personal belief systems. All I'm saying is it's understandable why he would be trying to get the same rate for both nights. I didn't necessarily say he was right or he should have recieved it.

No, no he doesn't. PERIOD. He has NO right to demand ANYONE conform to his religion nor should he expect anyone too. Thats not how a free country works and in fact it would even offend many people. Its fine that he asked once but he should have accepted the first "No, sorry we can't do that". Not continue to ask and work up to demanding it from me an additional 7 or 8 times then demand my supervisor when I won't give him what he wants. Thats rude and childish.

Actually I did, I didn't really say it correctly the first time, what I meant to say was that it probably would have been easier for everyone if you actually said those things sooner. Not that you didn't say them at all (us Jews like to be told things directly).

Once again, if you read my post, the first thing I told him was that I could not help him so he would have to speak directly to the hotel himself to make arrangements. At that point he should have said "Oh, ok, I understand I'll speak with the hotel.". That should have been the end of the call.

I should have not even have had to resort to using the inabilities of our software as a defense. The inner workings of our network and software are really none of a caller's business. In fact at a lot of company's revealing details about your software could get you in trouble, especially if its propriety software. But I was being patient with him and trying to get him to accept "no" rather then having to tell him no and terminate the call since he's tying up an emergency line.

I never meant to say that you don't do a good job, people aren't perfect and make mistakes and learn from them. I'm sure you've occasionally made mistakes at your job, so don't try to make it sound like you're a super-hero or something. I also did say that he could've acted better, so don't tell me that I'm saying you are the only who acted incorrectly.

No but thats the implication that comes across. You said I could have handled it better then proceed to site reasons why that are completely bogus because I already DID what you said I should have. Thus you can understand why that would be annoying to me. Even in this post you once again say I should have done something that I already did.

Also, no where did I say you said I was the only one who acted incorrectly.

He also finally took a different hotel that required traveling by taxi instead of extending his stay at the hotel he was already at. So after going on at me for over 5 minutes about how he had to observe Shabbat (and how my company should accommodate it) and could not travel in any way shape or form......he opted to travel just to save $15. So he broke Shabbat over $15.


Look, the impression I'm getting here is that you're defending the guy because he's Jewish when that in fact was never the issue. I did not post this call because the guy was Jewish. I posted the call because the guy was a stupid customer. Which is what this website is about. The fact he's Jewish is irrelevant. Its the fact he refused to take no for an answer and acted like a brat for over 5 minutes when he didn't get his way. Thats what landed him on this website.


Perhaps I should ask a mod to lock this thread down if we're unable to discuss it without making that distinction. ><

[protege]

OK, I think we've had enough of this one. Because this seems to be stirring people up, I'm locking it.