Whineyass Customer Detained at Home Depot

[Pedersen]

And as has been said: The store policy should, if it includes reciept checks, be spelled out in plain language, either on the reciept itself, or on a sign somewhere that cannot be missed as you enter the store. Then, people are informed and have the option to choose.

No, not on the receipt. Why? That's telling me after the fact what will happen. I've come in, bought my wares, given my money, and now, after our transaction is done, the store is saying "Oh, by the way, since we think everybody is a thief, now you have to prove you're not."

When I walk in the store, there had best be a great big sign telling me this. Otherwise, I won't show my receipt when I walk out.

I think that the letter this person wrote omits too much information to be truly useful in guaging the truth of the matter, and I'll just leave it at that.

On that, you may be right. There may well have been other indicators. I'll agree to that.

It only takes a few seconds to show it.

And does absolutely nothing. Assume I walk into a store which sells pricey (and small) items. Further, let's assume I carry a purse. I stuff that purse with a few of these items, and go buy a another item or two at the register. I show that receipt on my way out.

They didn't search my purse, did they? So I've stolen something.

Same store, no purse: I walk in, buy something with a moderately sized bag. Show the receipt. "Oh, dang, I forgot something. Let me go buy it real quick." A few more small items in the already bought bag, another item or two actually bought at the register. Show receipts one and two. Walk out with stolen goods, since, again, they didn't search my bags.

That's just the very first two scenarios I've devised, and I didn't even spend 30 seconds on them. And I don't steal. I'm not particularly inventive for this. Would you like more? I'll do more, and it will take just as little effort.

Showing the receipt does nothing. The store says "Everybody is a thief. Prove you're not." The customer says "And showing this receipt proves it? Fine, here you go." And so few people care, since it "only takes a few seconds".

Oh, and for this new comment: It protects the consumer from the rising prices due to theft.

Out of curiousity, has anybody seen the prices going down? Or even staying the same? I know I haven't. So, if I'm being protected from it by this, then whoever is doing the protecting is doing a pretty bad job.

Finally, my personal definitions of good vs evil (the only ones I've found which seem able to cross religious and cultural boundaries) state that anything/anybody which takes time from me without my consent is evil. Time is the one resource that I can never recover. Even if it's only a few seconds, it's gone forever.

And any store which tries to take that from me in such a manner loses my business.

Now, I know the way this works. The people who understand will likely agree with me (thanks, RK, for telling me I'm not a complete raving loony . The people who don't will now pop up in droves telling me that my arguments don't make sense. And we could go back and forth for weeks on end with the mods watching daily and wondering if this is the day the thread gets closed.

And throughout that, not one single opinion will get changed.

As such, I'm going to bow out of this debate. I'll read it, but unless somebody pops up and more or less makes me feel compelled to respond (which won't be easy), I'll not be posting any further. No point in it.

[PhotoChick]

I am employee of the company in question not at that store but one in the area. The stores in the DC area and just over the Maryland line are all very high-theft stores. Honestly its not a great area, most of the customers are rude and the employees indifferent. But because its such a high-theft area corporate gave managers permission to do receipt checks at exit. The policy is everyone gets checked as they exit and their receipt gets signed. In at least the 2 stores that I was in their are signs at the register informing or receipt checks but none on the entrance or on the receipt. (None of our policies are one the receipt). I can't vouch for the DC store as I haven't been there but I assume they have the same signs.

[Shangri-laschild]

I am employee of the company in question not at that store but one in the area. The stores in the DC area and just over the Maryland line are all very high-theft stores. Honestly its not a great area, most of the customers are rude and the employees indifferent. But because its such a high-theft area corporate gave managers permission to do receipt checks at exit. The policy is everyone gets checked as they exit and their receipt gets signed. In at least the 2 stores that I was in their are signs at the register informing or receipt checks but none on the entrance or on the receipt. (None of our policies are one the receipt). I can't vouch for the DC store as I haven't been there but I assume they have the same signs.

If that's true then I can't help but wonder how he didn't know that they were going to check it if he went there so much. Outside of if people should be able to check reciepts or not.

[marasbaras]

I don't mind receipt checks at Costco ... I signed the membership agreement and it was disclosed.

Frankly, if stores really want to protect themselves, they'll do a couple of things:

1. Hire more LP. More eyes work better. And, it means more jobs for people. Most of these big box stores are not hurting for money. Costco keeps their sups standing behind the registers. They're always talking about something, but the sups are available for help AND I've noticed that they're always looking around.

2. Change the layout a bit so that you go in one door, come out another. That way, if someone is going out the exit, you know they've gone past the registers. Costco is also this way.

It's a matter of corporate will. Most management doesn't mind giving poor service because it's cheaper. Having a couple of minimum wage receipt checkers is easier than rearranging the store a bit and hiring LP.

It's the same reason most of you are overworked ... the cheap tossers who hired you are willing to overwork you for their own gain.

[Saydrah]

A few points:

1. I am sure the customer was free instead of leaving the store and having his receipt checked, to walk over to the service desk and return his items. It was not as if they offered no choice. They simply offered no choice he liked.

2. Yes, the police were wasting time if they were simply arresting him for not showing his receipt- but I doubt that. He was probably causing a disturbance, and public nuisance IS a violation of the law.

3. Receipt checking is NOT just a theft-prevention measure. It also prevents a fair amount of return fraud and complaints like "I was overcharged" or "I paid for this item but it didn't make it into my bag."

[Pedersen]

Dammit, I did try, but that didn't last very long at all.

1. I am sure the customer was free instead of leaving the store and having his receipt checked, to walk over to the service desk and return his items. It was not as if they offered no choice. They simply offered no choice he liked.

Excuse me? You're saying that after he's gone in, spent money, and bought stuff (stuff that is now his personal property), he has to return it due to them not providing information on entry that they should have provided on his entry into the store?

Why not demand that he hand over his wallet, clothing, etc, as well? That stuff is his property, too. Just make the store pay him for it.

My point is this: Those items, once he has paid for them, are his personal property. He should now be free to do whatever he likes with them (short of hurting others). This includes walking out the door of the building with them, using them as they were intended, re-selling them to others, or even swinging them over his head in some bizarre moon worship ritual while dancing in front of a bonfire with three dogs and a (bored) cat watching him.

You're now stating that he is no longer free to do as he pleases with his personal property. That is something I have an issue with.

2. Yes, the police were wasting time if they were simply arresting him for not showing his receipt- but I doubt that. He was probably causing a disturbance, and public nuisance IS a violation of the law.

A public nuisance which, if the store did not accuse every customer of being a thief, would not have occurred.

3. Receipt checking is NOT just a theft-prevention measure. It also prevents a fair amount of return fraud and complaints like "I was overcharged" or "I paid for this item but it didn't make it into my bag."

So, here's what you're saying with those two additional excuses:

"I was overcharged": The receipt checker knows all of the current prices for all of the items in the store, and verifies that each item was charged accordingly, and that the final total adds up correctly. And that the checker is capable of doing all of this in just a few seconds? (see previous posts by others stating it just takes a few seconds)

Wow. I'm impressed. I do mental math faster than most, and I wouldn't be able to pull that off, and I know it. Receipt checkers have to be something like a high speed database (to remember all the prices) and human calculators (to do it so quickly).

Yeah, I'm not buying that as an excuse either, in case that wasn't obvious.

"I paid for this item but it didn't make it into my bag.": The receipt checker checks all bags that came from the register, and compares contents with the receipts, to ensure that all items in the bag were paid for, and all items on the receipt are in the bag.

So, in addition to being computers/calculators, the checkers are also Superman (for the X-Ray vision to see into opaque bags) and Flash (to be able to do it so quickly). Or the checkers you've dealt with actually empty and re-pack the bags? In which case, since they are still human, how does that prevent the issue, since items could be left in the checking area?

Again, not buying that excuse.

And still not buying the theft prevention line, either. I've already provided two examples for how to get around it without even trying hard, and could easily come up with more.

[CancelMyService]

Not to mention most retail theft is internal, not external. Shoppers tend to shove small crap in a purse or bag, the large ticket items usually walk out the door with a disgruntled employee.

IMO if a non membership store is checking recepts, they're basically accusing every customer of being a theif until proven otherwise.

[Racket_Man]

Veering slightly off track, yes, you can be pulled over for driving in a suspicious manner. And if the cop asks to search your car, your right to say no (at least here in the USA) is enshrined in the constitution. You do not have to let him do anything. He has to have a valid reason to suspect that something will be found, and you just driving suspiciously doesn't cut it.

Same thing for walking around. He doesn't get to search you without a warrant or probable cause. And the courts have long held that the fact that you don't want to be searched is not probable cause.

I've started to ramble a bit, but the issue here is a very important one to me: I want to be left alone. I don't want to be harassed. But to do that, I have to have the rest of the country say the same thing. And all too often, the overall attitude is "It's just a few seconds, and I have nothing to hide, so why not?" And that attitude will, sooner or later, screw us all over.

wanna bet they have to ask for your permission to search your car?????.

this happened to me about 2 months ago. I went on vacation to see my mom in the city where I grew up. I have not been back there for aobut 5 years and many things have changed.

after a 9 hour drive I got off the highway at a McDonalds I used to work at about 18 years ago. I needed to hit the little boys room and maybe eat something. I pull into the lot and get out for 30 seconds. I do not want to be the only white face in the place so I get back into my car and exit the lot. I drive down the road a bit to get to my mothers place and miss the light. I take the next street after the light but dang the street is not there anymore it is the driveway for a new highschool.

I do a u-turn and head back to the road I was on. at this point I am hungry for some fast food and decide to go to a another place about a mile away. I stay on the main road. whilest driving I notice a car behind me that is staying very very close to me. not worrying that much I turn off on the road to other fast food place. the car stays with me. not big deal yet. I again notice the car staying with me very very close.

now at this point my delivery driver instincts kick in and I figure this car is following me to either jack me or do a bump and rob (as I have out of state plates). I turn into a residential neighborhood not far from where I used to live and still know the area fairly well. following car turns as well and stays close. NOW I am paraniod as hell. I speed up slightly and do a couple of turns down some side streets to try and loose this car.

Finally the car flips on flashers and siren. DAMN an unmarked cop car. I pull over expecting a ticket for something. not happening. male and female plainclothes officers order me out of the car, do a street pat down, and demand to know what I am doing. I explain the vacation thing. they wnat to know where I am from (get license) where my mom lives her phone number, etc. the male officer then opens my car up and searches the inside of my car. did not ask or seek permission or inform me of any rights of refuseal he just opens the door and starts pulling things out and moving stuff around

now I have to say that I do not have nor do I do any illegal substances, weapons, etc. in my car or person. the male officer just keeps going on about he is really really really suspisious of me and I MUST be doing something illegal and again he is realy suspisious of me. thank the gods they let me go without much hassel but it still pisses me off. the male officer keeps asking me if I have ever been arrested before and of course my answer each time is a resounding NO!! (and yes I have never been arrested in my life had a couple of traffic tickets but nothing else)

durning the whole ordeal I was nothing but polite and cooperative just nervious as hell because this is what my old neighorhood has come down to now.

this illustrates that we are sliding back to the 50's 60's AND 70's when cops thought nothing about pulling someone over just because......... and then using anything they found to arrrest the occupants of the car even if there was no probable cause. unreasonable search and seisure my ass

I maybe can understand the store thing but do not agree with it at all esp when organized gangs can get away with soo much sooooo eaisly these days. yeah it is private property and the property owner can do this IF they wish but the presumsion of guilt is TOOOOO great and I can figure out ways to circumvent the system anyway.

[sportsmom]

2. Yes, the police were wasting time if they were simply arresting him for not showing his receipt- but I doubt that. He was probably causing a disturbance, and public nuisance IS a violation of the law.

Now, I will agree that the letter writer is most likely leaving very important info out, but I can guaran-damn-tee you that if someone laid their hands on me I would most definitely be causing a disturbance and calling for the cops myself.

Someone said earlier that by the letter writer's reasoning you would not be allowed to stop shoplifters (I think that was the general idea, but the wording was different), if I am correct in my remembering from our LP person, it is illegal to place your hands on anyone if you have not witnessed them doing something. If they didn't see him conceal something in order to steal it, then they have no legal right to place hands on him.

Like I said, though, I so think the letter writer is leaving out quite a bit of the actual story here.

[Saydrah]

Pedersen, I fail to understand how checking that all items on the receipt are in the bags would not prevent the customer from leaving without an item they paid for. It's very simple. As you said yourself, the checker checks all bags to see that all items on the receipt are there. Therefore, everything paid for, and on the receipt, will leave the store with the customer, and if they left something at a register, the error will be caught and they'll be able to leave.

Now, I do agree with you that it's not the best theft prevention measure. There IS no best theft prevention measure. I too can think of plenty of ways to steal from a store- not least of which being just to steal small expensive things that are pocket sized. Many store employees ignore the beepers that go off as people leave, especially if you've just bought something and act embarrassed and offer to come back and let them check your bags. Those beeper thingies go off over strollers, hip replacements, and often for apparently no reason. So really, theft is sort of one of the costs of operation- you can pay for it by realizing it's just gonna happen, or you can pay for it by hiring Loss Prevention.

BUT the store was within its rights to check receipts. He was within his rights to refuse; but if he refused, he should have returned his items and gone to another store without the same policy.

However, this thread is making me nervous, so if you want to debate the Constitutional side of this- who has what rights here- start a thread on fratching and put a link here. I'd do it myself but I'm logging off now to go drive in some lovely snow. UGGGGH.

[Irving Patrick Freleigh]

BUT the store was within its rights to check receipts. He was within his rights to refuse; but if he refused, he should have returned his items and gone to another store without the same policy

Or just keep walking. It would be stupid to keep pressing the issue further and suicidal to call LP to go nail a "shoplifter"

Many store employees ignore the beepers that go off as people leave, especially if you've just bought something and act embarrassed and offer to come back and let them check your bags. Those beeper thingies go off over strollers, hip replacements, and often for apparently no reason.

At my store they go off whenever customers pick up or drop off the motorized scooters or wheelchairs. They have anti-theft tags attached to them.

[marasbaras]

If this is really about LP and such, rearrange the stores, hire more LP. Check the receipts another way.

Failure to do so just means to me that store management does not respect the customers when they are frisked on their way out.

[Shangri-laschild]

male and female plainclothes officers order me out of the car, do a street pat down, and demand to know what I am doing. I explain the vacation thing. they wnat to know where I am from (get license) where my mom lives her phone number, etc. the male officer then opens my car up and searches the inside of my car. did not ask or seek permission or inform me of any rights of refuseal he just opens the door and starts pulling things out and moving stuff around

now I have to say that I do not have nor do I do any illegal substances, weapons, etc. in my car or person. the male officer just keeps going on about he is really really really suspisious of me and I MUST be doing something illegal and again he is realy suspisious of me. thank the gods they let me go without much hassel but it still pisses me off. the male officer keeps asking me if I have ever been arrested before and of course my answer each time is a resounding NO!! (and yes I have never been arrested in my life had a couple of traffic tickets but nothing else)

I don't know that what they did was something they were allowed to be doing...

[RecoveringKinkoid]

It's in the Sam's Club terms of service that one must submit to this. And since they are upfront about (sort of) that's fine. But what bugs me is that they claim it's so the customers "dont' get overcharged" which we all know is pure horsest.

So, I'm always tempted to ask the checker about various prices on my receipt. If I were to believe she was doing it to make sure I wasnt' getting overcharged, then I must also believe that she has memorized every single price in the store. If she hasn't, and getting overcharged at Sam's is a big enough danger that they've hired people to guard against it, then I want a more compentent checker to do a more thoughough inspection of my receipt. Right?

Of course then, I'd have to realize that the only person I was putting on the spot would be some innocent grandma type that is just trying to eard a few bucks extra in her retirement. Not something I have much stomach for.

[Emrld]

Did anyone else catch the part about his Father having already walked out of the store with the receipt? So that was a portion of why he didn't want to show it.
From my understanding he hadn't left the store when the employee placed their hands on him . . .but seeing as there was no mention of the employee getting in trouble with PD. . . there must have been some just cause. (could it be PD showing up getting both sides of the story and confirming what was happening and then letting Matt go be what he sees as being detained?)
When someone frequents a chain where they are from they get used to how that store is.
Then they move and find the same chain in another location . . .the brain goes oh wow a piece of home. Only it isn't the same . . .the staff doesn't know as much . . .nor do they seem to care.
I have to give kudos back to the store. It looks like they were aware this store was having issues and are trying to take care of them. They realize that they need all feedback from customers to make the necessary improvements.

I guess I don't really see this as whiney as much as letting corporate know that one of their locations is not up to standards set at other locations.