Is this racist/judgemental...?

[Kusanagi]

This sparked a loooong discussion at work with my coworker, and I'd like to get some opinions on it.

First off, I'm not going to name any specific ethnic group, or religious preference, or gender, and I would hope you guys would do the same.

Over the last three years I've worked this job, I've dealt with people from all sorts of groups - ages, personalities, orientations, races, you name it, it's walked through my door many times.

I know that we all are supposed to keep things open minded, and not make judgements based on someone when they walk in the door as that can be self defeating. As a commissioned salesperson, my paycheck depends on my ability to read people and interact with them, and to do that, I have to make some very large assumptions.

The assumptions I make are usually spot on, after dealing with these different groups for several years.

Now don't get me wrong, this doesn't necessarily have to have a negative meaning, although usually it does.

These groups are also very specific - I'm not painting, for example, an entire race or age group, such as saying "All blacks think whitey is trying to keep them down." I'm not saying that.

But with the way certain groups dress, the way they move, the way they speak - being good at my job, and having always been good at reading people, I can't explain it, but I just know things about different groups that have a 99.9% truth rate.

I still give everyone the same exceptional customer service - it's not like I see someone who fits the bill of a negative stereotype and then choose not to help them. But just to give you some examples...

I've noticed that without fail, certain groups will always haggle.

Certain groups will not keep their child under control.

Certain groups act offended when you don't speak their language.

Certain groups play the victim if things go wrong, even if it's their fault.

Certain groups will always turn out to be a massive pain in the ass.

On the flip side:

Certain groups are always a pleasure to work with

Certain groups will never give you hassle

Certain groups will not even turn into SCs if everything completely falls apart!

Certain groups are loaaaaded, and are very cool.

To give two positive examples and one negative one-

I have never dealt with a World War 2 veteran that was not one of the coolest people on this planet.

If someone pulls up in a Mercedes or any other luxury car, and they get out and are wearing a hawaiian shirt and sandals, that will be one of the most laid back people ever, and won't bitch about anything.

If an "ugly" man pulls up in a luxury car, and has a hot trophy girlfriend or wife on their arm, they are always condescending towards me and other salespeople.

A large chunk of my pay and my job depends on how well I read people - it's true for any salesman. Alot of my ability to read people comes from my experience from previously dealing with members of that group.

It's a hard concept to explain, but hopefully you guys get the drift of it.

So, what do you think? Perfectly natural, or is it judgemental/racist/sexist/ageist/whatever-ist?

[Chanlin]

Sounds to me like you are just reading people. It not like you see a Black man or a Hispanic man on the street and automatically hate them because they are black, hispanic, asian whatever they might be.

[Boozy]

Good salespeople are good at reading people. Its possible that what you are actually picking up on is subtle body language and attitudes. Its so intuitive to you that your logical mind doesn't understand it. So your brain attributes it to racial profiling. At which point the idea has stuck and its difficult to let it go.

For example, you might see 10 people in the store that can't/won't control their children. If 5 out of those 10 people are the same race, your brain may attribute that behaviour to race, even if its unrelated. The next time you see someone of that race, and by chance they can't control their kids, your brain counts that as "proof". What you don't remember are all the times you dealt with people of that race who controlled their kids, or who weren't of that race and couldn't control them. Your brain discards this information as a way of protecting an idea that it believes is helping you to survive (read: sell).

The only way to deal with this is to mentally challenge yourself each and every time you find yourself jumping to conclusions. I'm willing to bet that if you looked at things objectively, you'll start to realize that these stereotypes are not as across-the-board as you first thought.

I do recognize that some things are cultural. For example, there is a minority population in my city that comes from a culture of haggling. Canadians in general would rather die than haggle, but this cultural group actually sees NOT haggling with a shopkeeper as rude.

But again - this is cultural and not racial. A Canadian born and raised person of this ethnicity won't try to haggle. So its best not to jump to conclusions based on appearance.

[Kusanagi]

"Culture" actually is a better word to describe what I had in mind than "racial", although they do tend to be synonomous in alot of people I meet and speak with.

I remember in a class I took there was a statement:

"All ( a ) are ( b ), but all ( b ) are not ( a )"

[Emrld]

To me a Racist is someone who hates/ sees another human as not human just because of _____ (____ usually being skin color)
You stated that you give the same customer service to everyone who comes through the door.
Also, a lot of the things you used have to deal with material things, like clothes or vehicles. To me anyone and everyone can save up their pennies to buy whatever car and or clothing they see fit . . .therfore it is more personality profiling than racial profiling.
What I see you doing is getting your mind geared up to give them the best customer service you can based on visual clues. For someone in sales I don't know that I see anything wrong with that.

[WanderingSaint]

that's just observation in the form of sales. It's fine, as long as it doesn't morph in to something ugly in ones head like what happened to my last boss. But again, it's perfectly normal, even I do it. Some don't even have to do with anything racial or age marked, but also deal explictly with what the customer is wearing in certain groups. Most of them learned during retail and travelling internationally.

Certain groups will browse for hours and not buy anything. Completly harmless and will avoid store when crowded.

Certain groups come in looking for 'bad ass' stuff and and will not bother worrying about price. These guys are awesome, as long as you can put up with being hit on.

Certain groups have come in thinking this store was some cutesy fantasy place to dump the kids. Are commonly shocked to find out it's not, and dually shocked when they try to leave... and forget their four to eight year old inside and are stoped. We have WEAPONS! Keep them out!

Certain groups are shopping for someone else. Help them every step, they have no idea what they've walked in to, but they will be a pleasure to work with.

Certain groups will ask to see, touch, try on eveything, but buy nothing. Will also try to talk your ear off with their life story(which is a huge boring whinefest) when thay're NOT fondling merch while you are helping other customers.

If above group come in threes or more, try to get them out, as there are more coming. They are planning on camping out in the store while they wait for they're movie time. Will harass other customers and scare other customers away while clogging the store.

Certain groups will try to haggle. ALWAYS. Inform them you know haggling well, but sadly it is not allowed at the store. Will always purchase something.

Certain groups are here to talk to you becaue you work in the 'cool store'. Will not purchase at all if have not purchased by third visit. Good buddies for slow days.

Above group commonly actually more interesting and 'cool' then you are.

Certain groups have a eighty precent chance of trying to shop lift. If attended to, will purchase something and leave sans lifting attempt to seem legit, and will never come back. Sad but true.


... see? it's normal. And different for every business in every different area. As long as you don't feel some deep burning hate in your gut whenever you see/think of a certain group, and said hate does not exhist in real life, there is nothing to worry about. If it does, give you head a shake.

[MadRocketScientist]

Most people telegraph their attitudes and personalities in their body language and dress/personal appearance.

The fit of clothing, posture, eye contact, facial expressions, nervous/unconcious habits, etc all are presented in a person and our minds learn, over time, to give meaning and value to these indicators.

So yeah, you are reading people, not profiling. There is a very clear distinction, but it is not one that everyone learns or understands.

[Qaeria]

I don't think that it could be construed that you are racist because of your ability. If you think what you are doing is wrong, chances are, it is. The fact that you recognize the ability to work with instinct and intuition gives you an advantage. I have had similar experiences dealing with customers from different walks of life, but the "profiling" I naturally did well with was seniors. I don't know how to explain it either, but I seemed to have a sixth sense if a particular old fart was a closed minded religious conservative. I seemed to have a uncanny ability to speak to their listening, and many have commented that I am a senior in a whippersnapper's body.

Keep doing what you are doing. Remember, you do not have an attitude problem... others simply have a perception problem.

[chops]

Certain groups will try to haggle. ALWAYS. Inform them you know haggling well, but sadly it is not allowed at the store.

I found that out firsthand at the dealership, which was one of those that didn't haggle. As far as always buying something...well, they saw that as a major disadvantage and virtually nothing we would say that would justify the price would convince them. Plus, they'd always look at used, never new, which made things more difficult as there are always conflicting sources on how much a car should be worth.

[Bright_Star]

Some would read your comments & state that you're a good judge of character. OR some would say that you're being racist in an underhanded way.
It all depends on the individual.

[XCashier]

Keep doing what you are doing. Remember, you do not have an attitude problem... others simply have a perception problem.

Hey, that's my line!

[Can I Help Your A$$?]

I find that if I start assuming I can always assume something about someone, I will soon find an exception. That's because groups don't exist. A group is an imaginary thing. Only individuals exist. Once you start believing in imaginary things like "x culture," you start forgetting that people are individuals. And yes, individuals can forget and lose themselves within a group, because it's more comfortable that way.

We tend to count our hits and ignore our misses. A hit will always stand out, and a miss will be ignored. That's why many people believe in characters like Sylvia Browne.

Is it racist? Yeah. Does it make you evil? No.

Culture can be, and often is, the greatest oppressor to the individual. No matter how much a person seems to fit into the idea of what a certain culture is supposed to be, he still has his very own values. And while those may be the very same values of his "culture," they are probably the same as yours. Life, liberty, happiness, love, and acceptance.

I try to think about this kind of thing if I almost go off on someone. Are my "reads" helpful, in doing my job, or in living my life? What purpose do they serve? Do they help me, do they help the other person? Are they more for protecting me from something? Is that necessary? Will it help me achieve my goals?

[PuckishOne]

I just want to say a very hearty THANK YOU to all of the posters in this thread. This is what I want to see more of...a reasonable discussion about a touchy topic that stays polite, on topic and well out of Fratchable territory.

Again, thank you all. Carry on.

[myswtghst]

I think culture is a good way to put it, as it tends to influence behavior, IME.

In my line of work, on the phones, I've learned that certain people like to be treated certain ways - depending on their gender, their authority level and where they're from, I can usually determine the best attitude to take with them.

For instance:
~Most of my male techs like if I flirt just a tiny bit, in the sense of being sweet and charming, laughing at their jokes, etc.
~Most of my female techs like it if I simply act friendly and knowledgable, but stick to the point.
~Most of our Southern techs have the patience of saints and very sweet temperaments, and could sit and chat with you all night long.
~Most of our NY techs prefer if you cut the small talk to a minimum and are as efficient as possible.

The list goes on, but those are some of the most obvious. Again, I give everyone good service and I do take things on a call by call basis, but there are certain assumptions that seem to hold true over time. *shrugs*

I don't think it is racism unless it actually affects the way you treat the individual in question - and I mean that more in the sense of treating them worse, as opposed to treating everyone well, but possibly catering to each individual.

[Dark-Star]

Racist,shamasist! Don't worry - you aren't doing -anything- wrong.

Your experience is simply teaching you that there are some kinds of people who generally will do thus-and-so and some kinds who generally won't.

Take heart; I know where you're coming from. I went through a similar 3-year period in high school...fighting feelings of guilt/racism every time I thought "Yup. Here we go again" when ANOTHER girl would.not.shut.stop talking at 300 words a minute in class, ANOTHER boy started hooting like a gorilla in the cafeteria, or ANOTHER person wore clothing with gansterized cartoon characters or semi-obvious street messages.


Kusanagi: In the end I figured out it's a combination of culture and group influence.
~if you're raised around people who won't take the cotton out of their mouths- you'll probably speak that way too.
~if your family is 3rd generation welfare queens/kings- you're gonna have to try awful hard to be different.
~if half your friends have been collared for half a dozen crimes before they turn 18- chances are you too will have a rap sheet.

Don't know what everyone else's experience has been for HS, but this is my