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  • An open letter to potential employers...(long rant)

    This has been on my chest for a while now.

    You know what really, really pisses me off?

    Employers who misrepresent what they want.

    You are searching for a job. You are looking for something that fits your established skillset, passion, and the like, and matches up perfectly with what an employer puts in the job description.

    So you talk to the employer, polish a resume, tailor it exactly to their needs instead of a broad form letter, and then finally do the interview. You’re both excited, the employer loves you, they like your background, you chat for an hour or two about all aspects of the job.

    The interviewer is excited, and flat out tells you they’re relieved because they have the right candidate for the job. They’ll forward it on and get back to you.

    You wait a day or three then decide to call them back to find out about the status of your resume, and then get the following, or variations thereof.

    “Well, we’re really looking for someone with more of a mechanical/industrial background.”

    “We’re only accepting people that have gone to design school.”

    “Despite the fact that you’ve worked in this field for years, we’re going to go with the candidate that’s been doing it longer/I older/had more jobs in it (higher turnover)…”


    This infuriates me. You go back, look at the original job description, look at what the employer wanted.

    Did they say anything about wanting someone with an industrial background? No.

    Did they say anything about wanting a graduate from design school? No.

    Did they say they were looking for 10 years of experience in the field? Beyond “Some experience preferred but not necessary, will train,” No!

    Were any of these points brought up in the interview? You guessed it. NO.

    Every day, you read all these articles and rants and complaints about how “Good help is so hard to find,” “we have such a high turnover rate,” or “We’re sick and tired of hiring someone, training them for two weeks, then having them quit or finding out they’re completely incompetent for the job.”

    I won’t lie. I am damned good at what I do. Good enough to the point that I realize that in my current situation, with my current employer, I have maxed out my earning potential. I cannot make more money.

    My job encompasses everything. Not just sales, not just customer service, but administrative, clerical, maintenance, problem solving, design, and anything else. Walk into any larger sales store, like a car dealership. Take the roles there that everyone fills.

    I do ALL of it at my current line of work, from being the guy in the office that works with corporate to establish, dictate, and enforce policy to the guy who cleans shit off the bathroom floor.

    Several times in the last few years, I have been offered job opportunities. You see, the owner or manager would come in, deal with me, and be happy and impressed with my professionalism. They would tell me about their company, and how they were looking for someone good, or someone who was a quick thinker, etc. So I show interest, and go set up the interview. Then all of this happens again. I’ll give two examples, one less recent and one more recent.

    A very high-end furniture company known as Ethan Allen approached me. I spent a good deal of time talking with the people there, and they wanted me to apply because one of their staff members just quit. I knew I was at a disadvantage, so I spent the two days leading up to the interview the best way I could – researching their product, their history, and everything else. I even went in and spoke with the store manager on her invitation because she truly felt that I was qualified for the job and wanted to prep me for what was going to happen in the interview.

    Well, the interview was two parts. For a higher end company like that, here’s what it entails. In addition to your history, they want to see your design skills in action. People that go to Ethan Allen have no problem dropping my entire yearly salary into decorating a single room, and they want to make sure you’ve got what it takes. You’re given a floorplan, a budget, a catalog two inches thick, and general info about the family – names, ages, what they like, what they don’t like, basically everything that would help you determine what would suit their needs.

    You’re given that evening to design the room, and pitch it to the “customer” the very next day. (In reality you might be working with a client and designing the room over the course of a few weeks) Most interviewees make a little presentation packet. Myself, I went all out.

    I had a large piece of posterboard that I then blew up the room floor plans to. I had scale model of the furniture cut out of heavier posterboard, to scale, so the client could get a visual feel as to how it would fit and look in the room.

    The other thing that I did that all but assured me I got the job was cater to the client’s needs. I remember that the client had a lot of books, and wanted a lot of bookcases. Well, their budget wouldn’t allow me to do floor to ceiling bookcases the entire length of the wall, so I came up with a creative solution. I placed two larger floor to ceiling bookcases on the ends, and two smaller waist high ones in the middle between them. By doing so, I created a six-foot space on the wall. The manager, who was posing as the “client,” asked me why I did that, and I could tell that she as manager was very intrigued as well.

    The reason? The client had four children, and planned on entertaining a lot of company in that room. The space on the wall was going to become the focal point of the room, where the family could hang photos, place trophies, and have it be not only a shrine to their family and children, but a great way to show them off. What parent doesn’t love to show off their kids?

    The manager stopped me and said “That’s it. You’re the one I’m pulling for. I’m speaking with the district manager tomorrow when he comes in.” I left, excited and happy. The next day? What happens?

    The district manager doesn’t even look at my presentation. Doesn’t even hear what the manager has to say. All he asks is one question: “Has he gone to design school?”

    Torpedoed in 15 seconds.

    What really frustrated me when I called the manager back for an update, was that she told me they were looking for someone with more sales experience and real world experience. The reason she was impressed with my presentation (and I stayed on budget, the only one out of ten applicants to do so) was because so many people get out of design school and fall flat on their face when they learn that there are budgets, there are restrictions, and there are picky customers.

    The kicker? The district manager was the one who had come in my store and wanted me to interview after I spoke with him. He had come in doing what we call a “Comp shop,” where you see what your competitors have. And what’s worse? He KNEW I had no design background when he offered me to come in and interview!

    I was very livid over that, and needless to say, I quickly thanked the manager for the chance and her time and hung up before I demanded to speak to the general manager. I would have totally ripped him a new asshole, and I felt justified in doing so.

    Not suprising, the person they did hire fell flat on his ass and was fired two months later.

    The second example just happened. I was approached by an agency to work for a client. I can’t say the name of the client, because this might still happen, but it’s a high end furniture manufacturer. I went in for the interview with the agency and was hired by them on the spot. They were extremely impressed with my resume, my interview went fantastic.

    By the time they had given the client my resume that same day, they had already filled the position.

    Okay, bummer, but no big deal. They were very impressed with my resume, and said that they were going to be bringing on not one, but two people, and I had first crack at it when the position opened up after the first one was trained. I respect that, I’m a businessman.

    So today I call for a status update and I get this “We’re really looking for more of an industrial background or corporate background…”

    Was any of this in the interview process? No. Was any of this in the job description? No. I expressed my frustration to the agency in question, being polite but stern as to how bad this was making their client look and in turn, themselves. I feel I am qualified for the job, everyone at the agency does or they wouldn’t have hired me instantly, and now all I’m asking them is to just get me the interview. If they can get me the interview – I KNOW I’ll land the job.

    The trend now is to lower expectations in an interview and become more vague in job descriptions.

    So please, employers, do the following:

    Stop misrepresenting what it is you want in a candidate, because nobody likes turnover, and frivolous interviews waste everyone’s time and money (And to people looking for a new job, this can seriously put them in jeopardy!) It’s unfair to yourselves as a company and it’s extremely unfair to those who apply, when you don’t tell them additional requirements or misrepresent what you are looking for.
    "Time shall help me face my painful memories with indifference, and with more of it, I won't feel the need to face them at all..."

  • #2
    That kind of summed up my experience with a job interview across country (total cost for the interview: $2500 out of MY pocket, not to mention theirs). I was practically guarenteed the position before I went out there -- it was a formality more than anything. So, you know, $2500 to move cross country is pretty good. Basically, for me to not get it would've been showing up drunk -- something really bad.

    Went there.... had the interview.... no call.... called back... they didn't return call (went looking for other jobs at this point, unfortunately it was January and "my field" wasn't hiring at the time, but would be the month following)... called again and said they decided not to hire me and go with another two people instead to fill the single job (I think they went with 2 part time over 1 full time). I could tell by the woman that she wasn't happy having to say "no" (since she was the one who said it was a formality).

    When I got back home, I submitted a proposal to the company showing them how they could save millions of dollars a year by replacing certain departments in their companies with computers. While I normally wouldn't do that, the head guy said "people that come in here will leave with buying something, you'll never have anyone show up that won't buy anything -- our job is to fill out the paperwork". Know what the paperwork is? You hand them a form (that's already sitting on the counter), and tell them who to pay. You didn't fill out a single thing, only told the customer to "put in my name [so I get commission]". And the head manager person said to be rude, threaten (with physical restraint) to keep the customer there until they paid for something they might not of wanted (since, you know, they actually did want it, since if they didn't want it they never would've showed up). The entire department was, quite literally, useless.

    My letter to the home office was a cross from my company's viewpoint (we do software development and help people go paperless), and as a potential customer -- not as a job applicant. A few weeks later the company started pushing their online sales over in-store ones -- meaning you'd pay online, pick your store and get what you paid for.


    Because of that one place and the many jobs I've interviewed for (I'm told I'm really good at interviews!) my company has a drastically different policy for things. Positions requirements are clearly listed (with a notice that all employees are trained to do all jobs at the company - within reason).
    My company has a hiring procedure that's basically this:
    Submit to us:
    Required info: your qualifications and method of contacting you and who to ask for
    Kind of optional: hours you'd work (depends on the position, some are required, others we don't care)
    Optional: everything else (name would be too, but see above)

    If we call you for an "interview" you'd be sent off to training that day if you wanted (you were "hired on the spot" so to speak) -- UNLESS you do something to majorly screw it up then you'd be sent home with a "we'll be in touch".

    Comment


    • #3
      Kusanagi, that really sucks. *hugs*

      Is it possible that you make more money than they'd be willing to match or raise? That's something I was thinking of.
      Unseen but seeing
      oh dear, now they're masquerading as sane-KiaKat
      There isn't enough interpretive dance in the workplace these days-Irv
      3rd shift needs love, too
      RIP, mo bhrionglóid

      Comment


      • #4
        Quoth Kusanagi View Post
        Every day, you read all these articles and rants and complaints about how “Good help is so hard to find,” “we have such a high turnover rate,” or “We’re sick and tired of hiring someone, training them for two weeks, then having them quit or finding out they’re completely incompetent for the job.”
        I keep seeing this at my work. I've watched them re-staff the training team more than once, and continue to have issues with trainers leaving "unexpectedly." I've also watched them hire only trainers from one of the multiple call centers they service, meaning all our new hires come out onto the floor without having any exposure to people who have actually taken the calls they'll be taking, and having been taught entirely in theory, based on procedure alone.

        At least I'll give it to them that, this time around, they did a presentation in the interview, explaining to the potential hirees exactly what the job entailed, so no one came in only aware of a few of the responsibilities - which is why I think so many people were bailing.

        Quoth Kusanagi View Post
        I won’t lie. I am damned good at what I do. Good enough to the point that I realize that in my current situation, with my current employer, I have maxed out my earning potential. I cannot make more money.
        I also know this feeling quite well. I'm probably one of the highest paid employees in my dept, and aside from the annual raise and bonus, I'm on the highest pay scale I can be at for my job - including a shift premium for working second shift. I feel like I keep getting passed over for jobs I'm more than qualified for, and most of the reasons seem like either ass-kissing or politics.

        On the bright side, last night, I decided that if that's what they want, I'll give it to em - I started taking the idiotic online courses about "giving and recieving feedback" and "managing employees" that my sup recommended. Let's see if it helps.
        "In the end I was the mean girl/or somebody's in between girl"~Neko Case

        “You don't need many words if you already know what you're talking about.” ~William Stafford

        Comment


        • #5
          Damn this sucks..

          I wonder if the district manager that didn't look at your stuff realized who you were? It almost seems that he didn't. It's a shame that you couldnt meet with him personally. If you are still interested in a position with them you might want to find a name and address for him and send a personal letter.

          I see a lot of people having the same problem you are having. The economy sucks.. lots of people are out of work.. so while they may have placed an add for "you" they get so many applications from people with more experience or more training that are willing to work for the same money and they hire them over you. The problem with their decision is that the person with more whatever is going to take the first position that comes along that will give them more money or they just don't perform well because they think they are better than that position and just settled for a job that they have outgrown (much as you have outrgrown your present position).

          I wish you luck! All the extra effort you are putting in will pay off eventually!

          Steve B.

          Comment


          • #6
            Dude, if I had a company, I would totally hire you.
            That's incredibly sucky of the companies - would it maybe fall under false advertising? I mean, shouldn't they outline ALL the requirements for the job in the ad, or at least the interview?? What the hell?
            The report button - not just for decoration

            Comment


            • #7
              had nearly the same thing happen in 2000 during one of my periods of job hunting (got RIFed from a 3 year job because of the economy). I was in the IT field specifically IBM AS/400's. I can operate, do admin, basic security officer programming, etc.

              I interviewed at one company that made conveyor belts for admin/programmer. I first interviewed with the head HR person then a week later with the preident of the company. the interview with HR person was fairly standard stuff. seemed like I was a good fit for the position

              Now the fun interview. the president was REEEEEEAALLLLLY YYYY enthusiastic about me. ranted and raved about how I was the one he wanted for the position, ya know this interview is just a formality ya got the job locked up blah blah blah

              Yes I did take extensive notes on the job desc and his verbage I recorded them in my database I kept for all job inquires and interviews

              all that was left was for him (by his own words and statements) was to get apporval from some people/group in the company but I was a shoe in for the job.

              GREAT I have been out of work for about 6 months with few interviews prospects.

              a week goes by and I get a call on a Monday night from some low level peon in HR informing me that I was NOT going to be hired thank you goodbye. my jaw just dropped to the floor and I almost cried.

              the next day I tried to contact the Head HR person I first interviewed with but he was on vacation. I finally contacted him and (since I did not get the job) I let him, politely of course, have it with both barrels. I stated the pres should have NEVER told me what he did, this was TOTALY irresponsible and a few other things I can not recall now. I ranted and raved at this guy for like half an hour straight
              I'm lost without a paddle and headed up SH*T creek.
              -- Life Sucks Then You Die.


              "I'll believe corp. are people when Texas executes one."

              Comment


              • #8
                For me it just boils down to 1 thing. TELL THE FUCKING TRUTH!!! If I'm not the right person for the job, SAY SO you spineless shit!
                I can't count how many times I would stop looking for a job because the person I interviewed with told me "You are the right person for this job" or "I see no reason for us to interview anyone else, we'll be calling you in a day or 2...", etc...

                DIE YOU JELLYFISH BASTARDS!!!


                i feel better now.
                "All I've ever learned from love was how to shoot somebody who out-drew ya"

                Comment


                • #9
                  I know that pain all to well. Back when I was job hunting, I went through the same shit. Hey employers, if I am not good enough. Then tell me right then. Don't play these mind games.
                  Under The Moon Paranormal Research
                  San Joaquin Valley Paranormal Research

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I totally sympathise, Kus. BTDT many times. Why is it so difficult to state what the company is looking for in a job ad?

                    So many times I've had a screwed temp job because they stated they wanted one thing, then bait-and-switched me to a different department. One particular job said they wanted someone to do mailing. Fine, I'm excellent at mailing. Then when I got there, they decided to stick me on phones all day long. I have an awful speaking voice, sounds worse on a phone, and that's not what I signed on for.

                    And it's getting worse. I sign into temp agencies, saying I'm great at computer work and data entry, and they keep sticking me in assembly line jobs. There's probably some poor schnook in the same company who's fast and accurate on the assembly line but never used a computer in his life, and they've put him in a data entry job.
                    I don't have an attitude problem. You have a perception problem.
                    My LiveJournal
                    A page we can all agree with!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I hear you, totally. Back in...2006, I think? Yeah, that sounds about right. I had been CLOSE to graduating from college a number of times, then finally graduated in mid 2007. Point being...in 2006 I initially started interviewing for various programming jobs. Now, keep in mind that these interviews were set up via my career services department. Why's that so relevant?

                      - These guys knew up front I was entry level, if that.

                      - These guys understood I would work for PEANUTS, all just to ensure I had experience in hand.

                      - These guys had some idea what I knew and what I didn't. Further, with my willingness to learn and evolve, I'm more than willing to do anything to survive in a company.

                      I was asked if I knew anything about a program that they later admitted was proprietary. Oh yeah. YEAH. That means they were trying to #1 trick me, #2 ask me a question I could not possibly answer positively other than "No, but I'm more than willing to learn it."

                      I was given a VERY short interview by an HR manager that clearly knew nothing about programming. I was very positive, but it didn't seem to matter. WTF...if you don't want a student, DON'T...I repeat...DON'T offer to hire one. That's stupid. It's a waste of your time and mine. I could give a crap about your time, though. Screw you.

                      Don't ever leave me hanging. I know there's legal issues, etc....but come on. Don't egg me on like you're seriously hiring me, only to give me a letter DAYS after you talked to me last that "I'm not what you're looking for." What, really? Gee, a few days ago I was Prince Charming, now I'm King S***? Nice.

                      I haven't even bothered interviewing ever since I got my current job because they're paying for my certs, but you get the idea. There's a good chance that with the certs I'm getting (and currently working on CCNA), I'll be able to transition elsewhere in the company that hopefully is a programming position. If not, I can now get into IT, I suppose. If all else fails, no biggie, I can always go back to school to expand and become more specialized as far as game development, which is what I really want to do.

                      But yeah, I definitely get that. There's been so much BS I've dealt with in and outside of interviews it's absolutely ridiculous. I think the best, however, was the following situation...

                      - The first security company I worked for lost a MAJOR contract because they were screwing around...then tried to negotiate the contract for more...yeah, good business sense there, duder!

                      - They lost their contract to rival company B. ONE contract. Yes, it was a major one, but still.

                      - My wife was a former Lieutenant and I had worked multiple positions as an officer with plenty of references. We were tired of getting screwed around by the company, so we interviewed by B company since they were definitely hiring.

                      The interviewer proceeded to badmouth our company. He didn't bother to look over our credentials, experience, etc. I stayed tight-lipped and tried to steer the conversation to a professional stance, but to no avail. My wife got frustrated during her interview and said...

                      "Okay, but I'm not here to talk about them. We're here to talk about this."

                      She deliberately left out that she was a Lieutenant at said site that was lost (not for her actions, it actually happened after she left it) and was very upfront and professional, but it was obvious it didn't matter. What I don't get is it's not as if he ZOMG SUDDENLY NOTICED IT. Seriously now...you had time to go over our stuff. You deliberately put us in there to be a dick. I hope he got fired because not only is that slander (there were some pretty "bold" statements), but also that was completely unprofessional.

                      I'm just going to start bringing a dictaphone with me or something.
                      You can find me on Backloggery, Facebook, Twitch, Twitter, YouTube

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I sent in a resume 8 years ago to a company that manufactured lenses for high end medical cameras. It was a bit out of my field, so I was thrilled when they asked me to come in for an interview.

                        Well the initial interview was a smashing success! The hiring mgr called the VP in his ofc and veep came over and met me right then. They gave me the grand tour and said they would be in touch very soon.

                        Well I gt the call and the job offer, and it was great. They had me come in and meet the HR lady, fill out my W-4, etc. All in all I spent about 4 hours at my new employer, meeting my new immediate supervisors, etc. I was hired to be the liaison between the engineers and the sales force in the field. It sounded fascinating and best of all, it was Mon-Fri 8-5. No more weekends.

                        Then the manager who had just hired me and had me fill out my paperwork told me that the end of the fiscal year was coming up very soon, and if I could just hang loose for a week or 2, they would officially bring me on then. The red flags went up, but this was not a fly by night company, so I said fine.

                        Long painful story short, they strung me along for a month, outright lying to me before finally fessing up and telling me that they had filled the position out of their Boston office. (I am in Arizona) It was a budgeting problem according to them. I was heartbroken but that's life I guess.

                        And I hope that my almost manager's dick fell off.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Quoth texasbelle5 View Post
                          I sent in a resume 8 years ago to a company that manufactured lenses for high end medical cameras. It was a bit out of my field, so I was thrilled when they asked me to come in for an interview.

                          Well the initial interview was a smashing success! The hiring mgr called the VP in his ofc and veep came over and met me right then. They gave me the grand tour and said they would be in touch very soon.

                          Well I gt the call and the job offer, and it was great. They had me come in and meet the HR lady, fill out my W-4, etc. All in all I spent about 4 hours at my new employer, meeting my new immediate supervisors, etc. I was hired to be the liaison between the engineers and the sales force in the field. It sounded fascinating and best of all, it was Mon-Fri 8-5. No more weekends.

                          Then the manager who had just hired me and had me fill out my paperwork told me that the end of the fiscal year was coming up very soon, and if I could just hang loose for a week or 2, they would officially bring me on then. The red flags went up, but this was not a fly by night company, so I said fine.

                          Long painful story short, they strung me along for a month, outright lying to me before finally fessing up and telling me that they had filled the position out of their Boston office. (I am in Arizona) It was a budgeting problem according to them. I was heartbroken but that's life I guess.

                          And I hope that my almost manager's dick fell off.
                          That's bad.... not just that they actually hired you then said 'no', but that they strung you along knowing full well that you were unemployed during that time!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Back when i was let go from a cell phone dealership that closed, I was called in to interview with Best Buy for loss prevention as a full time position.

                            The closest BB was a hour drive away so I couldn't afford to drive back and forth for less than full time hours. Went in, had my interview with a department head and crew trainer. Got called back to interview with a shift manager. Got called back to interview with another shift manager. Got called back to interview with loss prevention manager. Got called back to interview with the Assistant store manager, he offered me a part time job in geek squad if I wanted it but said that all looked good for the LP position as well. All of these interviews told me the same thing, that they thought I would be a great fit with the company and looked forward to working with me. The ASM said that the store manager wanted an interview with me as well because he is the only one that hires the full timers.

                            Go back yet one more time and talk to the store manager, who held a lot of the same beliefs about loss prevention as I do. All went well, SM said that he thought I would do good as the LP person. I never heard back from that BB again.

                            Total time spent driving back and forth to interviews, 12 hours and about $50 worth of gas that I could not afford as i had been out of work for a month at that point. I was more than a litttle pissed that no one called me back to at least let me know that I didn't get the job.

                            At the same time I had interviewed for a dept manager with Toys-r-us and the first words out of the interviewers mouth was "I have interviewd 10 other people for this job already and I have not liked a single one yet, why should I even give you any more of my time?" Why start an interview that way?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Damn. That all just sucks.

                              How about this? Locally, many employers want their prospective hires to be well-educated. For example, nearly all accounting jobs (from the lowliest go-fer or clerk on up) want a business degree, or (usually) a CPA. Now, I don't know about you, but that CPA test is expensive. We're talking a serious chunk of change, folks. It annoys the hell out of me that a CPA is required (or "preferred"), yet, the starting salary amounts to jack shit! I mean, if I have to cough up the dough for the test, shouldn't that mean I'd be able to make a bit more? These same employers then can't figure out why their position still isn't filled, and the ad runs every Sunday, and has...for the past 6 years
                              Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines. --Enzo Ferrari

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