eBay Circumvention of Customs Fees?

[Pezzle]

Hello,

I have now been running this game store's eBay store for a while and just recently sold a bundle of miniatures - a pretty heavy chunk of pewter overall, and the auction sold for $70.00 total profit, 90 including shipping.

Now, after he paid he sends me this message asking me to mark it as a gift. I at first thought he wanted the price tags removedand gift wrap so I asked him to clarify. Apparently, he wants me to mark the value under $30 and declare it a gift from me to him. I asked my manager and he said he didn't care and didn't mind if I tried it once, but ultimately the decision is up to me.

On one hand, I would feel bad trying to get around customs fees and would expect to pay the same for myself. I know well that if the item is caught, I could lose the item and paypal could refund the shipping to him becuase 1st Class USPS International is not remotely traceable like Paypal.

On the other hand, this store desperately needs every cent it can get to hold its head above water and I don't want to let a re-listed sale go because the buyer could potentially leave me negative feedback (vindictively) and eat the relisting and final value fees.

I honestly don't know what to do. It doesn't seem so harmful, but I also like to uphold legality in the way I run this part of the store's business. I don't want to risk fines or auditing of the already damaged store, but I'm so scared of screwing my numbers for this month up. 1300 this month!!

A little insight or help anyone?

[cinema guy]

Did the items get multiple bids? If so you can do second chance offers and have a good chance of selling them without relisting.

Really, I'd tell him that you can't do what he is asking.

Or send the item before you tell him. That way the ball is in his court.

Really he shouldn't bid on overseas items if he isn't willing to take the chance on a customs charge. And in my experience, with USPS, the chance of getting charged is pretty small.

[Evil Queen]

Well, your manager seems okay with it, but how do you feel about it morally? If you get caught, you get caught. But how will you feel if you don't get caught? If you feel you'll still feel badly about it then do not do it.

[Irving Patrick Freleigh]

Do not mark the customs form as a "gift". It is a federal offense to lie on a customs form.

You may not get thrown in jail for doing it, but customs in the buyer's country could open and inspect the package ("gift" on the customs form is something of a red flag to customs officials) and find it is not really a gift, due to things like an invoice in the package or a professional label. Then they might confiscate the item and your buyer will file an item not received dispute and give you negative feedback.

If you really want to sell to this person, ship the item out, don't lie on the customs form, and take your chances with the buyer's feedback. If they decide to neg you, any sane person would see the buyer was being a drip and was asking you to do something illegal.

[Kiwi]

As the business seems to be in trouble, I would be doing everything as legally as possible

what if this is a sting? what if you are caught by customs? could your manager put you in the shit if your store is hit with a fine?

personally I would be emailing the guy back saying that your store is not willing to break the law for a customer. think about it, this is a stranger who could walk away scott free on this.

[Pezzle]

Do not mark the customs form as a "gift". It is a federal offense to lie on a customs form.

You may not get thrown in jail for doing it, but customs in the buyer's country could open and inspect the package ("gift" on the customs form is something of a red flag to customs official) and find it is not really a gift, due to things like an invoice in the package or a professional label. Then they might confiscate the item and your buyer will file an item not received dispute and give you negative feedback.

If you really want to sell to this person, ship the item out, don't lie on the custom's form, and take your chances with the buyer's feedback. If they decide to neg you, any sane person would see the buyer was being a drip and was asking you to do something illegal.

Especially considering that I label all things with our company's name and leave the price tags on the items, yeah I get the feeling we could get into trouble. If I were a personal seller, maybe I would sneak a "gift" or two once and a while but definitely not for this small store. I want us to succeed, not get fined and hammered. I can probably file a dispute too if he negs me.

Seriously, 15 blisters of miniatures? Not a gift. No way. They can hunt me down by the transaction code/auction # on the pitney bowes label too.

I'm gonna tell him I can't. He sent me this message:

Ah, sorry bout that What I mean is, when you're sending a package, you have to write what you're sending right? And how much the package is worth. And usually you also can put an x in a box for 'gift'. Meaning.. you can choose 'gift' from more choices.

So yes, it's for customs. If you send the package being worth 90$ I would have to pay 25% of that extra to customs.

sorry if I explained everything too slow

is that making sense?

__________

Too bad for him. I'd fully expect to pay duties.

[Gurndigarn]

The profit your store is making off that just isn't worth the risk to either you or the store.

Edit: Don't forget to leave a "bad buyer" rating if he tries to back out of the deal when you refused to act in an illegal fashion for him.

[Irving Patrick Freleigh]

Edit: Don't forget to leave a "bad buyer" rating if he tries to back out of the deal when you refused to act in an illegal fashion for him.

Not exactly possible due to ebay's shitwitted decision to mandate sellers leave positive feedback for buyers.

This is the reason I no longer sell on ebay--I can't adequately warn other sellers that this buyer likes to request that customs forms be marked "gift" so they can avoid paying customs fees.

Although if you wanted to be cheeky you could give the buyer their automatic positive and leave a comment like "Perfect Is This Awesome buyer"

[Dreamstalker]

If Paypal integrated shipping is used, it can't be shipped as a gift (although my last boss certainly made me try).

What seemed to stop the requests was my placing a disclaimer in the listings along the lines of "All Customs forms will be filled out accurately and honestly. As a business, we cannot and will not commit customs fraud; please do not ask."

[Gurndigarn]

Not exactly possible due to ebay's shitwitted decision to mandate sellers leave positive feedback for buyers.

That is the dumbest business decision I have seen in a long time! What's the point in a rating system if you can't leave even neutral comments, let alonge negative?! "Oh, but we must protect the buyers' fragile egos...."

[Pezzle]

If Paypal integrated shipping is used, it can't be shipped as a gift (although my last boss certainly made me try).

What seemed to stop the requests was my placing a disclaimer in the listings along the lines of "All Customs forms will be filled out accurately and honestly. As a business, we cannot and will not commit customs fraud; please do not ask."

He Sent me this:


ahh. Sorry you feel that way. Say I was crazy, I bought these miniatures for 10 000$, why on earth would you say that the packages value is 10 000$? It's not your store who priced these, it was bid on, and it got more expensive than it could have been. Had it been a 'buy now', I really couldnt have complained. I understand sending as a gift will be weird, since its from a gaming store. But you can regulate the price a little, for instance say its worth 50$ instead. That way I wont have to pay another 50$ which is the case. Sure that won't be a problem? And I'm sure no-one will even care.

thanks jp


I hate customers. But seriously, he has to pay another 50 bucks in customs fees? That does seem a little steep and I feel bad for him. I'm not using paypal integrated shipping because you can't send 1st Class Mail international online because you can only by the postage for that in the post office.

Head hurts. I'm going to make the manager make the final call. It's his store.

[Aethian]

Can only buy international at the Post Office because of the new airline rules and regulations that we have to follow.

I really really would not lie on that cutoms form, sure it may then look that the package is worth quite a bit but if that package gets lost you can only claim whats on the copy of the customs form. AND you can track international customs to the point it leaves the US step by step and then the international postie should be scanning it as delivered as the other countries post office should scan it as recieved.


But do not lie or else it is not him but the company you work with who is liable and then you yourself held for lying on the form.

[bainsidhe]

I agree with the others. Do not lie on the form. Period. Tempting as it is to be "helpful" and save the guy some coinage, you will be breaking laws. Whether or not you're caught shouldn't matter. Our company deals with international customers all the time and yes, we do get requests to list our product as "samples" or as $1.00 value so our customers can save money. Then there's always the pay a "commission" *cough* bribe *cough* that other customers request for their business. It's still against US law and would be holy hells bell if we're caught. We lose business sometimes, but we are legit.

Do as another poster suggested and politely and firmly explain that you operate a legitimate business and are required to accurately and completely fill out customs forms to comply with US law. I would try to avoid the "symapthetic" emails at this point, because he's trying to force your hand and make you do something illegal. Oh, and document all your emails (if you haven't already). Cover your ass. If he does try the 'ol bad feedback route, contact eBay with the info you have to prove a case of vindictiveness.

As for the "Oh silly me, what if I bought it for 10 grand" comment, I would respond with: "Dear <Jerkface>, we appreciate your email and concerns. As we are a business, it would bring us great happiness if one of our items were purchased for $10,000. However, the winning bid was wisely more in line with the listing's true value, and the winning bid amount must be listed on all customs documentation in order to comply with US law. I understand customs paperwork and costs can be intimidating, but as it is the law, we are required to follow it. We appreciate your winning bid and will be shipping your product shortly. Thank you again for your purchase and have a terrific day.

[Pezzle]

As for the "Oh silly me, what if I bought it for 10 grand" comment, I would respond with: "Dear <Jerkface>, we appreciate your email and concerns. As we are a business, it would bring us great happiness if one of our items were purchased for $10,000. However, the winning bid was wisely more in line with the listing's true value, and the winning bid amount must be listed on all customs documentation in order to comply with US law. I understand customs paperwork and costs can be intimidating, but as it is the law, we are required to follow it. We appreciate your winning bid and will be shipping your product shortly. Thank you again for your purchase and have a terrific day.

And here's the thing: I wouldn't mind sending them and declaring them their wholesale value instead of auctioned value, but he bought them for less per blister than they actually are wholesale! I've got to grow a pair and make some decisions. I'm not breaking the law to save one person money. If he knew about these fees the whole time, then he should have been prepared to PAY them.

AND even worse for him in the situation anyway: The people at the 3 surrounding twp post offices KNOW that I run this store's eBay business. They'd laugh at me left right and sideways for trying to mark it as a gift in person with the company's name on the label.

[Irving Patrick Freleigh]

That is the dumbest business decision I have seen in a long time! What's the point in a rating system if you can't leave even neutral comments, let alonge negative?! "Oh, but we must protect the buyers' fragile egos...."

The point seems to be preventing sellers from using feedback as a retaliatory weapon by waiting for the buyer to leave feedback first before they leave theirs.

This is a problem ebay brought on themselves though, by deciding to suspend sellers willy-nilly if their feedback percentages got lower than a certain level. What would happen is sellers would log into their accounts, find they had been suspended or limited suddenly, and then go to live help to find out what to do. The ebay reps would tell the sellers to leave their buyers negatives if they hadn't yet left feedback, and then try to arrange mutual feedback withdrawal with the buyer so that the negative would be removed and their accounts reinstated.

Head hurts. I'm going to make the manager make the final call. It's his store.

I wouldn't even do that. If he decides to mark the customs form "gift" and gets caught and winds up in trouble with customs officials and/or the buyer, he'll probably just toss you under the bus. Shit rolls downhill and all that.