Forced to pay for my own training

[Polenicus]

This sucks. I'm still checking into the legal specifics of it (Yes, I contacted Employment Standards before even posting this) but it doesn't make it suck any less.

Here's the rundown. When I was hired as a security guard, I told them POINT BLANK I didn't have my first aid, as that was something they wanted for the site. I asked them if it would be a problem.

I was told 'No, it won't, we'll arrange First Aid training for you'. And that was it.

Okay, that was November of 2007. I bugged my supervisor about it off and on since then, until recently, when he was removed from the site at the client's request (For various issues I won't go into). A First Aid course was scheduled, and I was told this morning I was in it.

Thursday Morning next week at 8 am... not exactly my preferred time, as I'm graveyards, and that will fsck up my sleep cycle, but it's on a day off at least.

Then the kicker.

I will not be paid for my time, and
I am expected to pay the course fee myself.
If I don't take the course, I can no longer work at the site, as I won't have the certification the client requires.

The rationale? Well, this is a St John's Ambulance certificate, so it will be good outside the job site, or in any other job I take.

The cost is $65. Now, I know the company I work for are a bunch of crooks. I work there because I love the site, and I like my co-workers and the job, but the local office screws me on my pay, uniform rental (Some people get charged as much as $20 per paycheck, for a pair of pants and a shirt that are worth maybe $40 total) and has generally been crummy to our site, because we've turned into a moneysink (They severely underestimated how much the site would cost in their bid for it).

I still have to plumb out the specifics to see if this is legal or not... even if it isn't, I'm probably stuck for it anyway... I don't want to just up and quit on the spot (Though the dramatics would be satisfying) as that would screw me financially in the long run, and fighting this while on a nocturnal sleep pattern is rough.

It's time to find a new job... this isn't the only issue (What these people do with overtime is downright ILLEGAL) but I was hoping I could last out until the client went in-house. Guess not.

I'm just kinda depressed about this, and about the $65 that ISN'T going in my savings fund or towards debts.

[crazylegs]

Uniform Rental?

Unpaid Training, that you have to pay out of your own pocket?

I've done security work and this sucks.

No, really, get the hell OUT.

[wagegoth]

These are all questions that should be asked of your labor board. If you can't find the information at their site online, call. They are usually very good about mailing out the appropriate pamphlets regarding your state's laws on these matters. Usually there is a limit on what can be charged for uniform rental. If you wear the same uniform as everyone else in your company, then they shouldn't be charging you more; the fee should be standard.

[Sableonblonde]

That's absolutely ridiculous that you have to pay for your own training class. I had to go through a similiar thing where I work, get certified by the health department as a kitchen manager. But my company paid for the class, paid me for that day, and even bought me lunch. No way should you have to foot that bill yourself, and also not get paid for that time. That seems crooked.

[sms001]

Actually lots of professional level certifications don't get paid for by the employer. Depends on the employer, and they're usually pretty up front about it. My wife ran a swim program, and expected all her employees to be Red Cross certified as a condition of employment. MSCE and A+ usually come out of an employee's pocket while she's looking for work Health classes for food often get paid for by the employer - because they are usually required to have a certain level of compliance in trained employees.

That said - what a bunch of asshats. It does sound like they're trying to "get some back" from a bad contract bid. Hope you can stick it out until the client goes in house.

[Sandman]

For my job we get reimbursed for CPR and First Responder training. Their philosophy is that they hope we never need to use our skills in our outside of work, but the more they have the better off they are.

[Broomjockey]

Unfortunately, I think you're probably boned. My residence requires all the RAs to have that course too, and I'm pretty sure they had to pay too, and I know they didn't get paid for their time for it.

[LostMyMind]

Unless they told you that they will pay for outside certification, it's your bill. Unfortunately

Look in the employee handbook, if there is anything about "will pay for certification/school, if you blah..blah..blah.." Then you got a shot, otherwise you got to pay for it.

As far as the uniform rental goes, buy your own and force them to stop renting it to you. You might have an action on that. But I would take the hint, and look for another security firm to work for. Look on the bright side, you'll have your certification too.

[Applerod]

Hold on to your receipt for the training, and if you never use First Aid before you leave the job say you want a refund. If they refuse, insist on breaking and splinting at least one of their bones -- that way at least you're getting your money's worth.

[rerant]

I know some employers will pay to get that certification but not all of them will.
Example: when I was at IKEA to work in Smaland (daycare) you needed your St. John's Ambulance and CPR training. If you didn't have it you couldn't work in that department, period. You could get it, but IKEA wouldn't pay for it.
It's not uncommon, so far as I understand, that you have to pay out of your own pocket.

One place even wanted me to pay for my own police background check. THAT I wouldn't do, though.

As for the uniform rental you're getting screwed. $20 from every pay? Fuck that!
I understand a lot of places will take the amount out of your first pay and that's it, or your last if you don't return the uniform once you leave, but it seems like an utter scam to me that people are paying for these uniforms from every cheque.

My advice is to get the hell out of there as soon as humanly possible. Certification aside they sound like they're screwing you and everyone else in every orifice they can find.

[PepperElf]

i'd suggest... does it have to be the course offered by THAT location? As far as a regular card goes, isn't one First-Aid card just like any other? I mean sure, you can get qualified for specifics too like child-cpr and first-responder...

but i'm thinking... why not find a free class if there are any?

i guess i was lucky that at work the company had their own medics who were qualified to teach us CPR & issue cards...

and yeah, buy your own uniform if you can. hell if it's one you don't care about much, maybe from a thrift store - especially if it'll piss em off right?

[KhirasHY]

Out of curiosity...what do they do with their overtime that's criminal? The quickest way to get someone's attention is to point out practices like that to the labor board...they can be downright nasty to a company that's screwing their employees.

That said, the company is nickle and diming you all...we do CPR and First Aid training as well, but we pay to have an instructer come on property and certify a class of people. If someone had to go off property and pay for a class, we would reimburse that as well.

Uniform rental, again, you're being screwed. $20 per paycheck is foul.

[Eric the Grey]

I'd guess it depends on what state you live in, but in Colorado, employers must pay for any time the employee is required to do something for the company. Saying that you could not attend the class and not have a job won't cut it with the labor board.

Also, the company is required to pay for uniforms if they are not ordinary street cloths and colors. I'd be willing to bet your local labor board has a web site with the information on it. Report them if they are violating the laws and you might well see some very quick changes, and possibly some money come your way. I remember getting one very large paycheck once because I was not getting a differential I should have been (everybody else got it). Once it was brought to light, they had to pay me the whole amount (about a year and a half's worth...)

Regardless, best of luck. Hopefully you can at least get paid.


Eric the Grey

[Polenicus]

They annoying part is, I waited on my employer to schedule this training since NOVEMBER. Also, this is only the very BASIC First Aid... if I did the course myself, I'd pay more, but I'd get the full St. John's Ambulance treatment. And I could have done it MONTHS ago.

I'm in Alberta, Canada, and I'm not sure what the labor laws are pertaining to this yet (Researching). But basically, Alberta has some of the most lax labor laws in the country, even though it's in a huge economic boom, because the government is too scared to slow down the bustling economy one iota for such silly things as worker's rights or the environment.