Don't Eff with me or a Dog in my care.

[AmbrosiaWriter]

Okay, so this wasn't a customer (so it doesn't fit in the SC forum); it was just a dog owner I crossed paths with as I was picking up a dog and bringing it to the van I have to drive all over the place.

The dog I had is a Vizsla:



He's really sweet, and completely chill (except when in a crate and is bothered by something.)

So I'm walking him to my van, when coming in the opposite direction is a guy with what looked to me to be a combination of a springer spaniel and an Australia Shepard. As soon as that dog saw my Vizsla, it starts to strain against the leash, panting hard, showing teeth, all signs that say to me "Shit, this could get bad."

I'm almost to the van, so I simply switch the Vizsla to my other side (away from the owner) and keep walking. I know my Vizsla won't react if I don't, so I keep walking.

Conversation proceeds something like this.

Owner: Hey! My dog wants to meet and play with your dog!
Me: I'm sorry, but I think he's not very friendly and I'd prefer if you'd keep him back.
Owner: WHAT!? How DARE you call my dog aggressive.
Me: Again I'm sorry, but he's showing aggressive posture. Please keep him back.

At this point I had stopped walking and kept my body between the Vizsla and the other owner.

Owner: Just let my dog sniff yours it will be fine.

With that he just lets the leash go.

He.JUST.LET.THE.LEASH.GO. EVEN IF THE DOG IS FRIENDLY AND I AGREED - DON'T DO THAT YOU DUMB ASS.

Anyway. Mix goes berserk and lunges for me to get to the Vizsla. I knew this would get bad FAST as my Vizsla had already proven to me that he's VERY protective of ANYONE he even REMOTELY likes.

So.

Everyone at my place of work is supplied with "Stop Bite/SprayShield." It is also known as citronella spray. It is 100% safe for dogs (otherwise we wouldn't use it) and it just smells REALLY bad to them. You spray it on their nose as they start to go for an attack and BAM! Problem solved.

So guess what I did?

You bet your first born I did! I whipped out the spray and hit the mix dead on the nose. He backed off with a surprised yelp, then scuttled away, sneezing and licking his nose (which he would be doing for the next 5 minutes.)

Of course, you can guess what happened;

Owner: WTF DID YOU DO TO MY DOG!
Me: I told you to take it away. You didn't listen to me. He'll be fine in 5 minutes.

Queue near manic rage aimed at me for "macing" (it's not mace, it's not PAINFUL and will do NO damage) his dog. He didn't let me get a word in edgewise. Etc. Etc.

Queue my Vizsla deciding to not be so patient with this idiot and his dog and begins the warning. Relaxed body, head low, lips pulled up, teeth shown, soft, steady growl.

(The other dog, when it attacked; stiff body, hackles on both the back and the base of the tail raised, teeth shown, tail stiff and straight, eyes wide. That, ladies and gentlemen, is what you look for when you look to see if they are ready to play or ready to eat you.)

I told the guy, once again, that his dog would be fine. If he wanted to take it up with my boss, or the police, to go right ahead (never mind that he was too pissed off to realize he didn't know where I worked). I had other dogs to pick up so I left.



Seriously people. I know that for you and for most dogs, your dog might be the sweetest thing in the world. However, you should still know the signs for when the dog is not in "playful" mode at all. That spaniel/Shepard mix was NOT in a playful posture at all, so I did what I had to.

[XCashier]

Seriously people. I know that for you and for most dogs, your dog might be the sweetest thing in the world. However, you should still know the signs for when the dog is not in "playful" mode at all. That spaniel/Shepard mix was NOT in a playful posture at all, so I did what I had to.

There are far too many foolish pet owners in the world. They don't do any research on the animal, don't bother to try to learn its behaviors or body language or how to properly care for and raise it. Result: see above post.

This happens far too often. The guy probably feeds and grooms the dog regularly, and that's good, but he is sadly lacking in the understanding department. The pet is not a furry human being like you think it is, but a creature with its own predispositions and communication. Learn it!

[raudf]

We teach, "Ask before touching." I think some parents forgot to add, "Respect the answer if it's 'no.'" Actually, I think that part was completely forgotten in some people's upbringing or we'd see so many less SCs.

I know an UPS guy who would love to know about the citronella spray. He hates the idea of hurting dogs, but he's been nearly attacked waaaayyy too often. If this would allow him to back a dog off without hurting it, then he'd be tickled!

[mathnerd]

I know an UPS guy who would love to know about the citronella spray. He hates the idea of hurting dogs, but he's been nearly attacked waaaayyy too often. If this would allow him to back a dog off without hurting it, then he'd be tickled!

The FedEx lady that delivers to my house is responsible for my dog's penchant for those crunchy outside/chewy inside bone shaped treats.

[AmbrosiaWriter]

I know an UPS guy who would love to know about the citronella spray. He hates the idea of hurting dogs, but he's been nearly attacked waaaayyy too often. If this would allow him to back a dog off without hurting it, then he'd be tickled!

Yup, it doesn't hurt the dog at all. It just smells really bad and shocks them when they get a nose-full of it. He just has to get good with hitting the dog right on the nose, otherwise the dog will just be like "WTF?" and his coat will smell like citronella. XD

It comes in cans and looks a lot like mace, but it's not. Trust me, if it hurt the dogs in any way everyone at my place of work would outright refuse to use it.

[Brojekk]

I wonder if a spray bottle with straight lemon juice to the nose would be effective too.

[Seshat]

Be wiser to get the citronella spray proper. It's an extract, and doesn't contain some of the acids the lemon juice (or lemon juice and water) would have.

Note to all: vets may well stock it; and may well be happy to sell a non-harmful dog-deterrant. Also, to train people in its proper use.
I am NOT a vet; but that's where I'd go first to look for someone to sell it to me.



And on the OP's original story: My dog's 'hey, a new dog, I'm excited!' behaviour is 'wrong' dog-language. Body is relaxed and tail is all waggy, but she's straining on the leash and growling and her teeth are often bared.

We, however, know that her dog-language is non-standard, and therefore difficult for both humans and other dogs to read. So we command her back to heel position, shorten her leash, and (if necessary) just plain pick her up and carry her until the other dog is out of sight. We will also warn the other human off.

Sadly, too many other-humans have insisted it's perfectly okay for our dog and their dog to 'play'. NO!


Fortunately, her dog-to-human body language is perfectly acceptable. It's only dogs that she growls at. So we have participated in helping some of the local mothers teach their children 'ask before talking to dogs, and here's how you say hello to a dog*, and this is how this particular dog likes to be touched'.

* we use the 'let them sniff the back of your closed hand' technique. We also tell them that Vi likes to sniff their pants/skirts, 'to find out where you've been'.


Edit to add: what a pretty Vizsla

[LesserSouthernFroglet]

My two dogs also have 'off' dog-language. They're growlers. As in 'I want up on your lap, so I will sit here and growl occasionally til you let me up', meanwhile pulling the cute puppy-dog eyes and occasional hopeful tail wag. The growling is a normal part of their doggy conversation, which I'm used to, but it can sure put other people on edge. It can sound very aggressive.

I never know what they're going to do with other dogs. Usually they strain at the leash and bark, tail wagging furiously. I just shorten their leash, or pick them up if they're getting over-excited. They're both small, so that isn't a problem. I suspect it's a mix of them being small dogs, and on leashes, so they're acting defensively, but it comes across as aggressive. Sort of bluffing the other dog. They're far less likely to do it to very big dogs though!

When they're off leash, eg at home or visiting with other dogs, they're perfectly behaved.

[LillFilly]

You did what you had to and it was the right thing.

I just adopted a rescue dog. Don't know what she is (the vet said her breed is 'dog!'), but she looks closest to a Dutch Shepherd. She loves little dogs, but any other dog is a 50-50 shot; I don't know what it is that she looks for or sees in other dogs. She is very gentle but her language is messed-up because she walks stiff legged towards the other dog, but that's because when she was rescued her hips were broken, so she can't bend her knees - so the walk looks more aggressive (up side, she uses both back legs at the same time like pogo sticks to vault over 4-foot fences). A little chihuahua in the local pet store took a shine to her, and she started giving him a tongue bath. The kid holding the leash just walked-over and kicked her in the nose! I yelled 'no' at him, and the parents tried to say that he thought she was going to hurt him. Umm, your dog came over to mine, and is obviously a good judge of character because he probably wanted to get away from your kid because he's been dragged along by the collar through the whole store. Every other customer in the area was giving the couple the stink eye too. I was too busy telling my dog how good she was so she wouldn't think she'd been bad. She got a cheeseburger for it, anyway!

[Seshat]

I just adopted a rescue dog. Don't know what she is (the vet said her breed is 'dog!'),

People ask what breed our dog is. I tell them she's a "lost dogs' home terrier". She seems to be a mix of mostly terrier breeds, but at least three different ones, if not more.

As for the 'lost dogs' home' part: that's the rescue she came from. Locals know the place (or know of it), and the name is fairly self-explanatory.

[Golden Phoenix]

Our rescue Shih-Apso is an "Omg! New dog! Happyhappyhappy" type, straining at the leash, wagging tail, whining etc but i always stay back and say to other owners "He's friendly, if yours is would it be ok for him to say hello?" and follow their wishes. It's the only safe way.

[mathnerd]

My big dog is a Brazilian Mastiff. He loves other dogs as long as we're out in public. On my property, however, other dogs aren't welcome. He's allowed a few strays to wander through if the kids aren't outside and the strays keep moving, but that's as far as he goes. Because he's so huge (140lbs and skinny), I have him well trained and under tight control. When we're out, he's busting at the seams to go play, but will "ask" for permission in the way I have trained him to before he approaches another dog.

My little dog is a rescue. She showed up in my bedroom one night (a door opens to the outside), and won't leave. We even found her old home and tried to return her a time or 12. She kept coming back, and the last time she did I sent a text to the old family saying they could come get her. They never did. She sort of looks like the dog in "The Mask". She's got the body and markings of a Jack Russel, the tail and nose of a Rat Terrier, and the ears, eyes and legs of a Chihuahua. She's the funniest looking dog I've ever seen. She doesn't like other dogs, but won't get aggressive. She'll curl up into a fetal position and try to hide behind me.

[Phantasmagoria]

My dog is a border collie, a breed which is notorious for wagging to your face then biting when your back is turned if they don't like you! They are also very commonly non-doggy dogs, particularly when they live on farms alone, as ours does. She is great with people, but very nervous and unpredictable around other dogs, to the extent that we can't take her to the regular surgery at the vet's for her vaccinations. When another dog comes in she will either shake and cry or go for it, and we have no way of predicting which it will be.

Despite putting her on a lead out walking whenever we see another dog, and warning people not to let their dog close, we still get cheery cries of "don't worry! My dog is alright!" ...well woop-de-fricking-doo for you, mine isn't!

Also, we've had a lot of people whistling at her. Yes, she's a sheepdog breed, perhaps they expect her to run off and bring them sheep? But in what world is it acceptable to start whistling at a stranger's dog? Luckily she's pretty bright, and will give them a particularly withering glare as she walks past with her nose in the air!

It never fails to shock me how many dog owners seemingly haven't the faintest idea about dogs.

(P.S. Allowing your dog to chase after someone's horse and run round and round it for a full five minutes while you smirk and occasionally give a feeble whistle is also SO not okay! Particularly when one of the horses has a child on board and the other is a youngster. We could have both ended up on the floor, or your dog could have received a large hoof to the face which wouldn't have left it particularly healthy)

[greek_jester]

(P.S. Allowing your dog to chase after someone's horse and run round and round it for a full five minutes while you smirk and occasionally give a feeble whistle is also SO not okay! Particularly when one of the horses has a child on board and the other is a youngster. We could have both ended up on the floor, or your dog could have received a large hoof to the face which wouldn't have left it particularly healthy)

That's when, if you've got a secure enough grip, you pull out your mobile phone, take a picture of the dog and the owner, then tell him you're about to call the cops if he doesn't beat it.

[wheeitsmee]

I love my black lab. She's going to be a puppy forever and she doesn't understand that not everyone/dog wants to be her friend and play (especially those small "dogs" with pointy ears and sharp claws ). I don't blame the other dogs if they aren't friendly. There have been several instances when my lab wanted to go make friends and we didn't allow her to. And that is our responsibility. We live in a place with a lot of dog owners, and luckily almost every one of them is a responsible owner.

I cannot imagine what I would have done if someone had purposefully sent their unfriendly dog over to us. I'm glad you had the spray so that their dog didn't end up with any bad consequences from it's owner's actions.