No Tailgating!

[Antisocial_Worker]

That's what it said across on the back of the purple Honda Civic, on a bumper sticker as big as a European license plate. On either side of this warning was a skull-and-crossbones. Very classy.

The problem I had with it though, was that the old man driving the car was doing everything in his power to try to make other drivers tailgate him. This included cruising up a busy five-lane road at a sedate 25 miles an hour, 25 miles under the speed limit. It also included leaving three car lengths between his car and the line you're actually supposed to stop at, at a red light.

What say you?

[Ophbalance]

What say you?

It depends? Do you get equally annoyed at folks that do 25 MPH over the limit? 5 lanes of travel going one direction? And was he still rolling at those stop lights, or completely stopped? Maybe he's been rear ended on too many occasions and got tired to being pushed into other vehicles at lights?

[Antisocial_Worker]

It depends? Do you get equally annoyed at folks that do 25 MPH over the limit? 5 lanes of travel going one direction? And was he still rolling at those stop lights, or completely stopped? Maybe he's been rear ended on too many occasions and got tired to being pushed into other vehicles at lights?

It depends on how aggressively they're driving as to whether or not I'll get annoyed. Sometimes around here, though, it's not safe to go slow. The city where I live is actually known as a traffic free-for-all that reminded one travel writer of Naples, if that tells you anything. As for the road, it was two lanes in each direction with a center turning lane, and it's a major artery. Because the driver was going so slowly, people driving the speed limit were coming up on him suddenly, having to brake, and then having to swerve around him so as not to end up in an impromptu parade through the suburbs. And no, he wasn't still rolling, but he was about three car lengths short of the line where you're supposed to stop.

[Ophbalance]

So... you consider it safer to be traveling 75 in a 50 vs 25 in a 50? I guess I wonder how this any different than having a cyclist share the road in terms of speed differential. I don't intend this to fracking, truly. Just my opinion.

[XCashier]

It is infuriating when someone is driving that ridiculously slow. And frankly, it's just as dangerous to other drivers as going ridiculously fast, for exactly this reason:

Because the driver was going so slowly, people driving the speed limit were coming up on him suddenly, having to brake, and then having to swerve around him so as not to end up in an impromptu parade through the suburbs.

If you can't (or won't) keep up with traffic, take the bus or walk.

[Gerrinson]

...he wasn't still rolling, but he was about three car lengths short of the line where you're supposed to stop.

We get this around here quite a bit; we have a large population of elderly drivers. One of my friends was stuck at a light for 15 minutes because the woman in front had stopped too far back to trigger the light and there was no room for anyone to go around her on the narrow 1 way street.

He's far nicer than I am, after a bout 5 minutes I'd have gone and knocked on her window to ask if she needed help driving or if I should just report her to the cops for obstructing traffic.

[Antisocial_Worker]

So... you consider it safer to be traveling 75 in a 50 vs 25 in a 50? I guess I wonder how this any different than having a cyclist share the road in terms of speed differential. I don't intend this to fracking, truly. Just my opinion.

Bicyclists don't take up an entire lane, and are much easier to maneuver around than a car driving at half the speed limit. The only time bikers block traffic as effectively as the car I saw did is when they're riding three abreast and refuse to move over.

And yes, around here at least it's safer to go faster than the speed limit than slower. Drivers where I live are aggressive, probably because we're a tourist city and we're all used to creeping along behind someone with an out-of-state plate who's enjoying the sights or is outright lost while we're trying to get to work on time. Around here, all the natives know how to pass people on curves, even. It's a skill you have to learn in order to get anywhere on time between May and November, unless you want to tack on another half hour to your commute.

[Ophbalance]

Bicyclists don't take up an entire lane, and are much easier to maneuver around than a car driving at half the speed limit. The only time bikers block traffic as effectively as the car I saw did is when they're riding three abreast and refuse to move over.

To be honest, they SHOULD be taking up the whole lane. It would be safer for everyone, 2 wheelers and 4 wheelers, if they did. It would cut down on the amount of riders getting clipped by sideview mirrors.

And yes, around here at least it's safer to go faster than the speed limit than slower. Drivers where I live are aggressive, probably because we're a tourist city and we're all used to creeping along behind someone with an out-of-state plate who's enjoying the sights or is outright lost while we're trying to get to work on time. Around here, all the natives know how to pass people on curves, even. It's a skill you have to learn in order to get anywhere on time between May and November, unless you want to tack on another half hour to your commute.

We will have to agree to disagree on that point. I've traveled a fair amount up and down the eastern seaboard, including into and around DC and Philly. And just the once into Pitt. Folks driving faster go around folks driving slower. It may take longer for those on cell phones to figure out to go around, but in general people would much rather just move over a lane than waste time. And I'll be damned if I'll break a law so others can go faster . That's what passing zones and passing lanes are for.

[XCashier]

That's what passing zones and passing lanes are for.

And if there is no passing zone or passing lane? What then?

[Ophbalance]

And if there is no passing zone or passing lane? What then?

In the case of the OP, the driver whom is going slower than the MAXIMUM and MINIMUM posted limit is obligated by law to pull over to allow traffic to pass. At least it's been worded that way in both states that I've resided. In the case where the driver is going faster than the MINIMUM posted limit but slower than the MAXIMUM, it is strongly suggested the driver give others the opportunity to pass by pulling off the side of the road if safe to do so.

In the case that I'm referring to, where I'm going the MAXIMUM posted limit, and there is no passing zone or passing lanes? I'm afraid you won't find me very accommodating . This is where another driver's desire to go faster does NOT trump my right to follow the law. Even on the twisty mountain roads in PA, there were passing zones. I find it hard to believe that they aren't common enough in most places to allow drivers to pass safely. Sorry, nope, you won't find me pulling over for anything but emergency personnel and such in that instance. I will not assist another driver break traffic laws, period.

This, by the way, comes from someone that used to spend his life in the left most lane at 15-25 over the legal limits. And I earned every speeding ticket and "failure to yield to traffic control devices (speed limit signs)" that I deserved. The last was in 2008 and landed me in court here in NC. I had been playing tag with a mustang on I40 for a good 20 miles on a Saturday. I would pass, then so would he. Than that rat bastard would slow down... and speed back up when I was along side him. I finally had enough and put it up to "lose your license" territory and got busted coasting back down. Even then, it was veeeeeeeeeeery close to "lose your license". It cost me half a day at work, a talk with an ADA and judge plus a $120 fine. The only ray of sunshine was my insurance never saw it.

But even when I was doing that, I never could justify it as being any safer for myself or others. Nor would I tailgate someone who didn't want to go as fast as me. Did it annoy me? Yep. And when I had a clear spot to pass, I let fly the foot of lead and passed with the little squirrels under the hood screaming away. At least in this state you don't have to contend with two 18 wheelers playing macho out on I80, neither being able to pass the other for 10 or more miles. Although I95 can occasionally get bad for that.

Again, the desire to travel faster than legal limits does NOT trump someone's right to travel at legal speeds. No matter how safe one feels the road may be at that speed, or how annoyed one gets. I'm all for bending rules in some cases, but I won't budge on the ones set down for driving.

[XCashier]

Where I live, there are very long stretches of highway that have neither shoulder nor passing lane, and only one lane in each direction. For that reason, someone going way under the speed limit can cause an awful lot of trouble. This is one reason why I am in agreement with the OP, that the "No Tailgating" 25 MPH guy is in the wrong.

[Antisocial_Worker]

To be honest, they SHOULD be taking up the whole lane. It would be safer for everyone, 2 wheelers and 4 wheelers, if they did. It would cut down on the amount of riders getting clipped by sideview mirrors.

It would also cause traffic as a whole -- four-wheeled and two-wheeled to grind to a clotted halt. Thankfully, most of the cyclists I see are courteous enough to stick to the bike lanes or to the sides of the road when there isn't a bike lane to use. It's dangerous to slow traffic on the main roads.

[PepperElf]

Do you get equally annoyed at folks that do 25 MPH over the limit?

Personally, yes. That's reckless driving. The kind of ticket that requires a court hearing vs just mailing the fine in.

Each extreme carries its own issues.
Too fast and the driver might not be able to stop or be truly prepared for hazards in the road. Too slow and the driver risks causing an accident because the rest of the traffic has to suddenly divert around him or her.

It's dangerous to slow traffic on the main roads.

The main roads around here don't have that issue much since they have wide shoulders for the bikes and Amish. One of our main roads is really popular with Amish because of that - it's a divided road with a shoulder on each side big enough for a car. (makes it big enough for evac helos)* Although some drivers do get their panties in a bind when they have to be careful about pedestrians.

and in the residential areas no one should be speeding like that anyway because there's kids who might be on the road too. although one road is notorious for it... people speeding home from the local school doing 45-50 in a 25 zone.

* actually they needed an evac helo a few months ago when someone rear-ended an Amish carriage. (even though the carriage was on the shouder)

[iradney]

Ok guys. Consider this a warning. Leave the fratching debate stuff for fratching. The speed limits are there for a reason, end of story. Carry on this manner and not only will infractions be handed out, I will make sure to cough on each one before they're sent. (I'm sick. Be afraid)

[SongsOfDragons]

It was on the BBC a while back that they were bringing in fines for 'middle lane hogs'. This was in my mind as I drove up and back to see my parents last week, a journey of four hours usually that includes a hell of a time on the bloody M1 - going up something like 20 junctions in all. M1 has four lanes or more, and I tried to stay in the inside lane as much as possible... found I kept having to move out and back in to overtake not slow people but lorries. >.<

Eventually I stayed in the middle lane - I was doing 70 anyway, and I reckoned it was safer for me and them for me to stay in my lane rather than keep having to switch around. There were two outside lanes which both were going faster than me, and I didn't touch them unless I had to (like if a lorry pulled out to overtake and I didn't feel I could slow down safely). And unlike before with the leapfrogging I didn't get gesticulated at by annoyed drivers.

I have a feeling that my analogue speedo might be slow, though? I was using Sean the Satnav to help me through the tough bits (A43, I'mma lookin;' at you!) and he regularly reported a speed 5mph less than what my speedo was saying - if it said 70, he said 65. Which should I trust?