The innocence of Parents

[Opalin]

So much to a couple people's shock and horror over the week, we do in fact carry a large amount of what here in the states are called "M" rated games. These games can contain
Drugs, alcohol, violence, language, and *GASP* NUDITY! As ordered by corporate, these cannot be sold to anyone under the age of 17 without an adult's consent. This results in a couple of standard reactions that can be divided into 3 categories.

The "No." parents: They know which games are ok, which aren't, but the kids are trying to push the limits. Not really a big deal on either party's part.

The "eehh..." parents: These usually have some M rated games (Halo, CoD) that are considered ok, others (GTA, hello full frontal male nudity, there's a fascinating first for an M game) that aren't.

The "whatever the hell" parents: Generally known by their call of "They see worse than this on TV" or have a 16 year old, or the kid that forgot his ID. They don't care, they're all good, just annoyed to be in the store.
- My favorite note on one of these "Is there any way I can just mark down that they can buy whatever they want permanently?!"


But we've recently had some odd incidents that have come up

The Shattering of Innocence
After the seemingly required daily conversation about my inexplicable accent, a woman and I have settled into conversation about general topics, including the required trade in conversation. During this, she talks about how her son has recently finished "Bioshock infinite" and is now bored of it. She's quite pleasant during all of this, and her son (9ish?) is seemingly restricted by price, not game topic.

Eventually he picks out L.A. Noir, a detective game based around the 1940s-50s, with elements of the black dalilah killings thrown in. Made by Rockstar, the GTA people. The following conversation occurs.

Me:
IM: Innocent Mom (no more)
IMK: Innocent Mom's kid

Me: (this is required) "And of course, you know that L.A. Noir is an M rated game"
IM: "M... rated? what does that mean?"
Me: *pause* "An M rated game means, in this case, that it can contain blood, violence... nudity, about the same as an episode of CSI in this case..."
IM: "Really?! Can I see that for a moment?" *takes back case, stares at back of it with increasingly concerned expression*
Me: "Um... m'am... you do realize that Bioshock infinite is also an M rated game... also containing racial themes, violence (one of the abilities makes your opponents commit rather graphic suicide) etc..."
IM: *now appears to be going into a mild form of shock, turns to kid, who has been zoned out this whole time* "Why do you want to play this game?!"
IMK: *confused expression* "It contains fightin... and stuff...?"
IM: "I DON'T SEE ANY FIGHTIN ON THE BACK OF THIS. I SEE A MAN WITH A GUN AND A DEAD PERSON." *turns back to me, horror still on her face* "I always thought a game was just a game! Nobody at target ever told us there was any of that in games!"
Me: *resists the average gamer speech impulse* "So you'd like me to put it back then?"
IM: *stares at son for a long while* "No... we'll get it, and this time I'm going to watch him play it this time! And we may be back with the other games...."
*hands her a list with the ratings and their meanings*

I felt kinda bad for both parties... the kid and the mom. The kid, because, well it would appear nobody ever told him playing these was 'bad' and he's gonna end up with a lot of problems if his mom really is as sensitive as she spoke, the mom because well... she just found out she'd been willingly buying games with things she had problems with in them unwittingly.

From the mouths of babes come... awkward questions
Young boy(also 7-8) and mom come into the store.

YB: Young Boy
YBM: Young Boy's mother

YB: "Do you have a cowboy game called Red Dead Resolution?"
Me: "You mean "Red Dead Redemption"? I think we do" *shows game*
YB: *grows very excited* "Oh! Yes! This is it!"
Me: "Did you want this, or the game of the year edition?"
YB: "What's the difference?"
Me: "The GotY edition contains zombies." *shows cover*
YBM: *glances over, sees zombie on cover, and physically and almost violently recoils backwards.* "NO. no zombie games."
YB: "She really doesn't like zombies."
Me: *thought. No kidding....the monster of the year thing must really freak her out then...* "Ok, and you do know this is an M rated game, right?"
YBM: *frowns* "A what?"
Me: "it means it contains content that would have it rated R if it were a movie, in this case Blood, Intense Violence, Nudity-"
YBM: *politely interrupts* "Nope. You can't have that one if it has nudity*
YB: "What's... Nudity?"
YBM: *awkward face* "Naked people."
YB: "What's wrong with Naked people?! They're still people! I get naked to take a bath!"
It was at this point I had to walk away to prevent myself from laughing. I retrieved our slip on the ESRB ratings system, and gave it to her.
YBM: "AO games?!" *horrified look at our shelves*
Me: "We don't carry any of those ma'm, and you can only buy those at certain stores, but just like X rated movies, the rating still exists."
YBM: *calms down, and eventually settles on CoD3*
two other statements from them. One funny and one sad/awkward
YB: "I don't really like halo. It's not realistic." (was later determined he just didn't like the earlier graphics.)
YB: *to me, while his mom is talking to my manager* "I have to go to my dad's today. I wish I could just live with my mom"


Bonus suck

And we want that... why?

Parent to me while her kids are running around the store.
"You know, if you would put out chairs for parents, we'd stay here longer"

[PepperElf]

omg no. then they'd be like the other dog owners i see at the park who sit and read papers and only half-heartedly try to monitor their dogs.

you'd end up with parents sitting down ignoring their children ... even more than they already do

[Mytical]

Sorry for the offtopic..

See I've never understood the 'ignore the child' thing. I've went with a friend, relative, etc and they pretty much ignore the child. Meanwhile I am stressed out because the child is running with sharp objects or crying or talking to strangers.. it is not even my child and I watch them like a hawk!

[manybellsdown]

Bioshock Infinite had very racist themes. I can only hope they went over the kid's head.

[raudf]

I don't know where some parents get the idea that all video games are kid friendly. That's like saying all cartoons and comic books are kid friendly. Oh wait, these are the same parents who probably believe that too! Gah! I think they're more sheltered than their kids!

My oldest, he's 11 now. He's played some of the M rated games, like Halo, since he was old enough to hold a controller and have a plasma grenade stuck to him. He would giggle as he either ran at the mobs or back at Mommy and Daddy. The difference is, we play these games too and we took care to explain that he should not act like the characters do in those games and why. We chose to see them as useful teaching tools, rather than a baby sitter.

Which is why I got rather irritated when someone chose to lecture me on why I shouldn't buy my kid Halo 3 when he was 5. Look, I appreciate your concern, but (and there's always a but) my kid is a straight A student with no issue of behavioral problems.. and look, he just gave up playing with the XBox so the little kid could get a turn. Yours, who is 6 years older, is up front taking apart the display case.. and what's that you're buying him? Assassin's Creed? Gotcha.

[NorthernZel]

Hoo boy.
My son's K-class has just been allowed to bring their tablets (or, in my son's case, a smartphone with no phone connection), and since there is no explicit age label on the apps (well, the iOS apps do, but the Droid apps don't) there's a big issue amongst them re: who is allowed to play what.

So I have a huge trouble explaining to Li'l Zel why he can't play, say, "Zombie Road Rage" at school while his older classmate can, and at the same time (at home) trying to defend why some of his other friends' parents allow them to have a Facebook account even though they're not 13 yet, while I enforce that policy.

[CrazedClerkthe2nd]

The thing is, it's only been in the last 10 or so years where home console games have reached the level of graphical detail where realistic nudity and violence is possible.

Back in the 8-bit NES days games just weren't graphically advanced enough to pose a serious problem. It was in the early 1990s when that changed thanks to a game called Mortal Kombat. The intense violence of the game is part of what led to the creation of the ESRB, which assigns ratings to all games now.

While graphic violence has been a part of video games for around 20 years now, nudity is one of those things that's been slower to come around. Sure there were always adult games out there but these were usually restricted to niche PC titles as the major console makers and retailers wanted nothing to do with games that had nudity.

I still remember the brouhaha from 2004 over Grand Theft Auto San Andreas and the whole "Hot Coffee" controversy.

If you aren't familiar with it, the programmers had put a sex mini game into the game but it had been removed in the final version. The code was still in there though and gamers with the PC version of the game figured out to how to unlock it and play the game. It was also possible to unlock it for home consoles as well but only with a game cracking device (like a Game Shark).

There was much outrage and GTA: San Andreas became the first major game rated AO. There was actually a second, M-rated version of the game released after the uproar. This version had the sex mini game completely removed.

A couple of years later, the God of War series began and each game in that series would be noted for a sex mini game it contained.

Graphic nudity in video games is still uncommon but it is becoming more the norm. There's a case in L.A. noire where you have to examine a nude female victim up close.

I remember constantly having to warn parents about Dante's Inferno. Each level is based on one of the seven deadly sins and the boss of the Lust level is a giant topless woman. A lot of people changed their mind on getting the game when I told them this.

What always baffles me are parents who have no problem buying junior the most violent games around but then freak the heck out at even the SLIGHTEST bit of nudity in a game.

[Seraph]

Yeah, we're already having to explain to the kids about game ratings, movie ratings....

I mean, jeez. Just playing Terraria, they can get pretty riled up and scared. We're waiting for the next sale to hit, so we can get them a copy and put a Peaceful mode mod on.

[Halo_miles]

That last statement just drove me crazy. I have people come up to me and ask why we don't have a driver lounge anymore. I try to avoid saying, "because even though "normal" driver say they would use it, it's usually the batshit crazy ones that stay for hours".

[midnightaurora]

What always baffles me are parents who have no problem buying junior the most violent games around but then freak the heck out at even the SLIGHTEST bit of nudity in a game.

THIS!

When Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 came out with the scene where you're an undercover terrorist shooting up Americans, I would warn the parents. (My store is in an area riddled with clueless parents. They get warned, because easily 75% of them do not know what they're buying their kids.) They'd be all "As long as there's no nudity!" So, nudity is therefore somehow 'worse' than shooting civilians?

[scruff]

I do sympathise with the parents, when I was in primary/first school we got pong.

There were varients, the 'tennis' version involved two 'bats' per player, instead of one, but if you're expecting this sort of game as a parent, you've got no idea about the potential graphics/storylines in modern games.

The most 'modern' game my Mum has seen is Attic Attack, back when we had a Spectrum. Try googling those pics. The most dodgy theme was the serf character could walk through barrels (alcohol implied). (I've just got her to upgrade after her 12 year old pc finally fell over.. I'm going to break her in gently with Sims3). If you're selling games to parents with that level of computer/console knowledge, expect them to assume their kids are basically playing chess.

[Gravekeeper]

I grew up right on the curve with modern gaming. The NES came out when I was 5 and before that I had ye ol'd Atari and Coleco Vision. My mom kept right up with the technology right up to the PC because, dur, that was her job as a parent. To make sure the world wasn't fucking me up in the head before I was old enough. She continued on to keep a handle on it for my nieces and nephews as well.

Has nothing to do with the technology and everything to do with parents that want a babysitter you can plug into the wall. Before this it was the TV. They very fact they don't know what's in an M rated game is evidence that they just let their kids play it so they don't have to pay any attention. If you paid attention to the screen for 30s as a parent you'd know something with amiss with Bioshock, GTA, etc

Fun Fact: My mom thinks Call of Duty sucks.

[Ophbalance]

Ahhh.... and for some reason, I was one of the magical few that had one of the original Maniac Mansion carts (had, keyword here. Someone stole it). The one that allowed shenanigans with Ed's hamster. My beef is youtube at this point. There's kid friendly things there, but so very many NOT kid friendly items it rather sucks trying to keep the younger ones from seeing items they should not.

[Opalin]

I grew up right on the curve with modern gaming. The NES came out when I was 5 and before that I had ye ol'd Atari and Coleco Vision. My mom kept right up with the technology right up to the PC because, dur, that was her job as a parent. To make sure the world wasn't fucking me up in the head before I was old enough. She continued on to keep a handle on it for my nieces and nephews as well.

Has nothing to do with the technology and everything to do with parents that want a babysitter you can plug into the wall. Before this it was the TV. They very fact they don't know what's in an M rated game is evidence that they just let their kids play it so they don't have to pay any attention. If you paid attention to the screen for 30s as a parent you'd know something with amiss with Bioshock, GTA, etc

Fun Fact: My mom thinks Call of Duty sucks.

This is essentially my view on the subject. If you're going to give it to your kid, you could at least look and see what you're getting for them, even if you yourself don't play it.

[Grendus]

Bonus suck

And we want that... why?

Parent to me while her kids are running around the store.
"You know, if you would put out chairs for parents, we'd stay here longer"

Classic customer thinking: the store's goal is obviously to get customers to stay in the store, not to sell things. The only customers you way to "stay here longer" are the ones at the crucial junction of having disposable income, free time, and low maintenance. Parents with small kids are about as far from that point as possible.