Questionable Banking Requests

[Ghel]

A couple of stories from yesterday and today.

I can't bypass privacy laws or give legal advice

SC: My brother has an account with you.
Me: ... <Yes, he does, but you're not on it.>
SC: He needs to add either me or our other brother to the account.
Me: ... <trying to look like I'm following without verifying what she's saying>
SC: He's homebound, and he called to tell me his account was overdrawn, then it wasn't, then he sent someone over with a deposit, and it would be so much easier if someone else was on the account with him.
Me: Well, he would need to initiate that. But once he calls to add someone to his account, you could take the paperwork to him.
SC: But I don't want to be ON the account. I don't want to be responsible for his money. But I want to be able to help him out when he needs it.
Me: Then your only option would be to get power of attorney, which you would need to go to a lawyer to draw up.
SC: <stares at me>
Me: Sorry, we don't have any other options. <Our signature cards don't have a place for authorized signers.>

Family Fued
This story actually started yesterday, when one of our younger customers (YC) walked into the bank with her grandmother (I think. Could have been stepmom or something, I'm not sure.) The YC wasn't sucky, but the situation was and her mother (who came in today) was.

YC: I want to take my name off the account I have that's got my mom on it.
Me: <looks, sees YC just turned 18 last month> I see that there's a note on here that you can't withdraw anything without your mom's signature.
YC: Yeah. I really want to close the account, but with the way it's set up, I can't. So I just want to take my name off of it.
Me: <wonders for a moment why she can't get her mom to sign for the withdrawal, but decides it's none of my business> Ok. We just need to do a form to change the names on the account and do a new signature card. I'll have you sign the form, then your mom will need to sign it and the new signature card.
YC: Ok.
Me: Just so you know, your name won't actually come off of the account until your mom comes in and signs.
YC: Ok.

So I fill out the form and have her sign. She and her grandma/stepmom/whatever seem happy and leave.

I proceed to type up the new signature card in just the mom's name (I'll start calling her SC from right here). I try to call SC to let her know she needs to come in and sign. The phone number we have under SC's name is disconnected. The number we have under her other daughter's name rings at SC's mom's house, who tells me to never call her regarding anything to do with SC.

So I attempt to flex my Google-fu. Searches for SC yeild the disconnected number. Searches under SC's place of business (the local headshop ) yeild two different numbers - one says the mailbox is full, the other has a generic voicemail. So I leave a voicemail where I can. I look again on the mainframe, and see that SC has a savings account with a friend. I leave a message on the friend's voicemail, just saying that I need to talk to SC.

[ASIDE]While I was trying my Google-fu, the bank president and two of the senior officers walked into the bank. I actually had getweed.com or some such up on my screen when the bank president walked over to say hi. He didn't ask, so I don't think he noticed. <whew> [/ASIDE]

The message to the friend must have worked, because this morning, SC called. I explained she needed to come in and sign. She seemed ok with that. And the correct phone number? The one listed under the headshop where the mailbox was full.

Then she got to my desk.
SC: YC wanted her name off the account, huh? Well, it's her loss.
Me: I have everything typed up. I just need you to sign.
SC: I just want to close the account.
Me: Ok, I'll write up a withdrawal slip. What do you want to do with the money?
SC: I'll put it in my other daughter's account.
Me: <writes up withdrawal and deposit slips>
SC: I can't believe her grandmother convinced her to do this.
Me: ... <none of my business>
SC: And her dad convinced her she doesn't need to go to college. She's just going to loaf on her grandma's couch for who knows how long.
Me: Here's your receipt.

Here's what I wanted to say: Look, lady. You and your current husband sell drug paraphenalia and synthetic drugs (and possibly actual drugs, but I don't know that) out of a headshop with a deliberately vulgar name. You already closed your business savings account with us because you were paranoid that we were going to report the ungodly amounts of cash you were funneling through it. Your daughter probably knows all this and is afraid she's going to be indicted when all this goes south. Because I'm sure you've been depositing money from this shady business into your daughters' savings accounts. If I were her, I wouldn't want anything to do with you, either!

[mathnerd]

Oh, man. I've seen some crazy stuff but that second one definitely goes in the top 10 of every banking issue I've ever seen.

The daughter is very wise to take her name of of any account connected to her mother. I once dealt with a very messy situation involving government freezes and right of set off. For those who don't know, right of set off is a legal protection for the banks that state that if a customer fails to pay a debt owed to the bank (credit cards, auto loans, overdrawn dda's, etc.), the bank has the right to "set off" that debt by taking any available liquid funds the customer is holding in the same bank. That means we can drain your checking and savings accounts, your CD's, and in rare circumstances, your retirement accounts. Word to the wise: if you're going to default on a debt, make sure your liquid accounts are with a different bank.

So, this guy comes in to find that several of his savings accounts, one checking account and a half dozen CD's have been drained. Several more of each kind of account have also been frozen. The reason for all this was because his brother had a business that involved questionable products. The brother was also not very good with his finances. Unfortunately, all the affected accounts were joint accounts with the brother, set up by their parents, but maintained mostly by the customer. Earlier in the week the bank had exercised the right of set off on several accounts, and the day before we received a freeze order for the rest of them. Unfortunately, even though the customer had done nothing wrong, he was out several hundred thousand dollars because of the stupidity of his brother, and there was absolutely nothing we could do about it. Even if we reversed the right of set off debits, the IRS freeze order affected every single account with the brother's name on it, so he'd still be out that money.

[Seshat]

Here's what I wanted to say: Look, lady. You and your current husband sell drug paraphenalia and synthetic drugs (and possibly actual drugs, but I don't know that) out of a headshop with a deliberately vulgar name. You already closed your business savings account with us because you were paranoid that we were going to report the ungodly amounts of cash you were funneling through it. Your daughter probably knows all this and is afraid she's going to be indicted when all this goes south. Because I'm sure you've been depositing money from this shady business into your daughters' savings accounts. If I were her, I wouldn't want anything to do with you, either!

Wow.

If the daughter had no rights to remove her name from the account without the mother's signature, and the mother had refused to sign ... would the daughter potentially still be in personal trouble with the law? Even if she'd done everything she could to dissociate herself?

I know you probably don't have the answer to that. But I think it's a good question!

[mathnerd]

Wow.

If the daughter had no rights to remove her name from the account without the mother's signature, and the mother had refused to sign ... would the daughter potentially still be in personal trouble with the law? Even if she'd done everything she could to dissociate herself?

I know you probably don't have the answer to that. But I think it's a good question!

There are ways around that problem, but it's convoluted and time consuming, and far more effort than the OP put into tracking down the mother.

[Seshat]

Then for the young woman's sake, I'm glad the OP is a thorough and dedicated woman. Ghel, you did her a huge service and earned your 'feel good about yourself' points for the week.

Heck, if things go ... wait. When things go pear-shaped for the mother, you may have kept the daughter out of jail, or at least vastly reduced the workload on the cops and the girl's defence lawyer. (IE, she may not need one, thanks to your work.)

Sounds like a big service to her and society. Feel good about yourself.

[Ghel]

Thanks, Seshat. It's a screwed up situation all around. I don't know the whole conflict among the family in the second story. It could be more than the mom's questionable business, but I don't know. Again, I don't blame the daughter from wanting to distance herself from her mom.

[PepperElf]

Me: Then your only option would be to get power of attorney, which you would need to go to a lawyer to draw up.
SC: <stares at me>

Yeah that sets off warning bells in my head. It's possible he doesn't know what a POA is, but it's also very possible he doesn't have permission in the first place to even try accessing the account.

Your daughter probably knows all this and is afraid she's going to be indicted when all this goes south.

I can understand the daughter's reaction now. And... hmm, although I am kinda wondering if the daughter can refuse the deposit, if she thinks it's drug money that is.

[Ghel]

Yeah that sets off warning bells in my head. It's possible he doesn't know what a POA is, but it's also very possible he doesn't have permission in the first place to even try accessing the account.

I don't think that's the case. I'm pretty sure this customer had their brother's best interests in mind. The biggest part of the suck was that the customer in front of me didn't understand I couldn't tell them anything about an account they weren't on.

I can understand the daughter's reaction now. And... hmm, although I am kinda wondering if the daughter can refuse the deposit, if she thinks it's drug money that is.

Not really. Anybody can make a deposit to any account, so the mom could have continued depositing money to it. It's for the best that the account is closed.

[Sapphire Silk]

Thanks, Seshat. It's a screwed up situation all around. I don't know the whole conflict among the family in the second story. It could be more than the mom's questionable business, but I don't know. Again, I don't blame the daughter from wanting to distance herself from her mom.

I was very confused by the original story until you got to the part about the headshop. I couldn't imagine someone just giving their money in a bank account to someone else by taking their name off of it.

Wow.

[tilly101]

A couple of stories from yesterday and today.

I can't bypass privacy laws or give legal advice

SC: My brother has an account with you.
Me: ... <Yes, he does, but you're not on it.>
SC: He needs to add either me or our other brother to the account.
Me: ... <trying to look like I'm following without verifying what she's saying>
SC: He's homebound, and he called to tell me his account was overdrawn, then it wasn't, then he sent someone over with a deposit, and it would be so much easier if someone else was on the account with him.
Me: Well, he would need to initiate that. But once he calls to add someone to his account, you could take the paperwork to him.
SC: But I don't want to be ON the account. I don't want to be responsible for his money. But I want to be able to help him out when he needs it.
Me: Then your only option would be to get power of attorney, which you would need to go to a lawyer to draw up.
SC: <stares at me>
Me: Sorry, we don't have any other options. <Our signature cards don't have a place for authorized signers.>

This brought back horrid, horrid memories of similar calls I used to get ALL THE GODDAMN TIME at work where people wanted to discuss/be added to someone's policy, but just on the spot, without the customer in question giving us authority.
It never ceased to amaze me just how long those calls would roll around in circles... *SIGH*

[Seshat]

Thanks, Seshat. It's a screwed up situation all around. I don't know the whole conflict among the family in the second story. It could be more than the mom's questionable business, but I don't know. Again, I don't blame the daughter from wanting to distance herself from her mom.

Of course, now I'm concerned for the younger daughter: but it seems Grandma has the situation well in hand. Older daughter has just turned eighteen and is working on separating herself legally from the questionable business practices, with Gran's help... hopefully Gran will protect younger as well.

[taxguykarl]

This brought back horrid, horrid memories of similar calls I used to get ALL THE GODDAMN TIME at work where people wanted to discuss/be added to someone's policy, but just on the spot, without the customer in question giving us authority.

I got calls like that asking about a child's/parent's/sibling's return or refund status. I point out that I can't answer due to privacy regulations.:SIGH