Oh no, you're one of THEM.

[CrazedClerkthe2nd]

As a reminder: I work in a high level customer service department at <Red Checkmark> handling the most serious complaints we receive.

BG: There has been a conspiracy theory floating around for some time that the Government of the United States passed a law more than 80 years ago which resulted in trust accounts being set up for every U.S. citizen and every citizen is entitled to access that money if they can figure out how. There's a lot more to it than that, but that's the basic gist.

Enter our SC.

The guy hasn't paid us in four months and we've shut him off. He sends us a SIX page complaint letter basically arguing that, because the U.S. Government has a secret account for him my company needs to work with the government to draw from the account to pay his bills and he doesn't actually owe us anything. He also threatens to sue us and various Federal agencies if this doesn't happen post haste.

The letter was a faux legal letter, meaning it was a letter that looked like a legal letter but clearly written by someone who doesn't know the law from a hole in the ground. I'm no lawyer, but I know enough to know this guy is completely full of crap.

Oh and he makes a point to mention at the end of the letter that he is his OWN legal representation. Wow, I did NOT see that coming!

So before I do anything with him I have to speak to Legal. The lady from legal and I have a good laugh over the phone at SCs expense and she says: "Oh yeah, we get a few of these from time to time. These people are completely nuts." Furthermore, she clears me to tell the guy that his letter is a bunch of BS and we're not doing a thing with his account until he pays us (using actual and not imagined funds). Also, if he wants to sue us, so be it. We're ready for him.

So I call SC and shut him down and get to listen to a long rant about how I am "Unpatriotic" and "failing in my understanding of a complex financial situation" blah, blah, blah. It ends with him telling me he's going to get me fired and that he'll see <Red Checkmark> in court.

Good luck with that, you crazy moron.

[Arcus]

If he's not careful, he can end up in jail for trying this. There was a guy in Florida that tried to buy a car using the "Secret Account." He was arrested and convicted of fraud.

[Argabarga]

Oh no, not the Sovereign Citizens.... anything but them.


To put it simply, they believe all regulatory law is actually business contract, and if you didn't agree to it personally and sign any documents then the law doesn't apply to you. Need a license to drive a car? Nope, only if you consent. Need a license to practice medicine? Nope, only if you consent. Need to pay taxes? HELL NO, you didn't consent.... It'd be funny if it weren't for the fact that some of the more mentally-ill believers in this theory attack and even kill bill collectors, police officers, bank clerks and others for "attempting to illegally infringe on my rights with made up law I didn't consent to"

The way it gets really weird is they believe that when the Government or a company puts your name on a bill, it's not your "real" rame name but a "corporate entity", they belive that "John Smith" is the name of a business, not a person, which is where this odd idea really comes from, they think that every person named by the government and given a social security number CREATES such a business and automatically credits it with money, (which is what they think the national debt really is...) and that there's "secret" ways to withdraw "Your" corporate entity's cash.

Fortunately most just live with sending nuisance lawsuit threats and attempts to pay their bills with their own homemade money, that kind of stuff.




Every year at tax time, the IRS website has a specific warning that anyone who thinks this BS works and tries it will immediately move to the FRONT of the line for tax fraud prosecution and the feds WILL seek double damages and WILL be awarded them. But people try it anyway.

[MoonCat]

...the hell??? WTF??

Wow, ya really do learn something new every day! 61 years on this earth and I've never heard of this nonsense.

I've heard of people who insist that there's no such thing as the United States of America and therefore they don't have to pay any taxes assessed by this "fake" nation. But I've never heard of this!

Man, if there's a secret govn't account in my name, now would be a damn good time for them to start paying me my money

[Ironclad Alibi]

A history of this scheme is here.

This scheme has been used in scams.

[Argabarga]

The only people who ever make money from the idea you have a secret government bank account are those who sell you "how-to" books on how to GET at that secret government bank account.

Think bout' it.

[Mental_Mouse]

The only people who ever make money from the idea you have a secret government bank account are those who sell you "how-to" books on how to GET at that secret government bank account.

Think bout' it.

Quite right. As I've ranted over at NAR, these schemes are basically magical thinking. Especially, these schemes often "cargo-cult" tactics that the genuinely rich and powerful really can do, because they have enough money and contacts that they are playing by a different set of rules.

[notalwaysright]

...the hell??? WTF??

Wow, ya really do learn something new every day! 61 years on this earth and I've never heard of this nonsense.

I know, right? I hadn't heard of this secret account before either, or sovereign citizens for that matter. But regarding the idea of a secret account that you have to know some special way to access... What does this sound like? Oh, right, it sounds eerily similar to click bait titles. "Use this simple trick to cut your car insurance cost BY HALF!" or "Secret discounts that Amazon doesn't want you to know about!"

I mean, we all want to pay less for stuff, but mostly we know when something is too good to be true. I wonder, really wonder, about people who believe click bait. There's some age where kids learn what a lie is, I can't remember what age but it's young, and these people never got there apparently?

[taxguykarl]

Every year at tax time, the IRS website has a specific warning that anyone who thinks this BS works and tries it will immediately move to the FRONT of the line for tax fraud prosecution and the feds WILL seek double damages and WILL be awarded them. But people try it anyway.

Our awesome regional manager chucked a SC who tried that. Specifically, he wanted us to transmit a return claiming everything he had withheld with such reasoning.....no way we're going to put our names (and office e-file license) on that nonsense.

[Smapti]

There's a Court decision from Canada a few years back, Meads v. Meads, where a man in the midst of a divorce was trying to use these "corporate person" arguments to get out of paying alimony or something of that nature. The judge uses the case as a springboard to catalogue as many of their arguments as he could find and elaborate on why they're all nonsense.

It's an interesting read if you have an hour or two to spare.

[Zeddi]

Sounds a bit like our "Reichsbürger" - people who think laws don't apply to them cause the "Federal Republic of Germany" was never really created.

They're idea is that the former ... well ... "Governments" of Germany were never really "replaced" by our actual legal state.

Of course they also don't agree among each other. Some of them think the Nazis where never really shut down. Other think the Weimar Constitution ist still the "right" law. And some even argument the German Empire is still at work.
And of course - each of them thinks he is the "head" of "their" countrys.

Sometimes they create their own Passports, Driving-Licences e.t.c. and proclaim they are valid. Some people buy these documents, for example people who are not allowed do own a driving license anymore.
And of course they think they don't have to pay taxes to the "fake Government" currently running our Country. (Of course they have to )

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichsb%C3%BCrgerbewegung

[EricKei]

Just a heads-up, we're keeping an eye on this thread. Y'all been doing just fine so far so please don't let it go downhill.


Thanks!


<tips his mod hat>

[Pixelated]

There's a Court decision from Canada a few years back, Meads v. Meads, where a man in the midst of a divorce was trying to use these "corporate person" arguments to get out of paying alimony or something of that nature. The judge uses the case as a springboard to catalogue as many of their arguments as he could find and elaborate on why they're all nonsense.

It's an interesting read if you have an hour or two to spare.

Thanks, I will check that out. I'd love to access this "secret stash" for sure.

I don't understand why people want to believe that a government would go through all the folderol of setting up these secret accounts and dumping money into them, only to play silly buggers with the populace so that said populace can access this money.

Had a former classmate invite me to let her help me (translate: hire her, would be my guess) find "lost" money. Don't know whether it was this nonsense or actual monies from actual bank accounts that I'd forgotten about. In any case, I declined. I have checked with some reputable sites that really do look for forgotten bank accounts and such; my name, alas, is not on any of them.

[MoonCat]

I recall a thing we ran into at work, where some state offices were part of something called the [State] Master Account. Apparently it was some sort of accounts payable system that SOME (read: very few) state offices used to pay bills, including for things like recruitment ads.

So we ran into this problem where certain accounts would say, "Oh, we're part of the [State] Master Account, you have to bill them," and, well, not only was it a very complicated system, it turned out that a LOT of them weren't actually part of that system. They might have been in the past, but no longer were, I think. I'm fuzzy on the details.

It wasn't a scam, but I lot of people did try to use it to get us to bill someone else for their advertising, and getting any money out of that "master account" was a major PITA. So we were told to tell such offices that we did not work with the "master account" system and would be billing them directly

[Argabarga]

Governments also have financial arms, with tax IDs and such, but that's because they need to have them so Federal employees can get W2's and companies that contract with the Government can get paid/recipts for what they do, from the guy who sweeps out the tiniest rural Post Office up to Lockheed Martin aircraft for building fighter planes....

The koo=koos just look at that as "proof" the govt. is really just a buisiness/bank/tax scam because "It has a tax ID! It's no different than YOUR employer who has one toO!"