Rant about the rights of a business.

[Talonetc]

Okay, this is something that was on my mind yesterday... and quite frankly I need to rant.

Its about the right that businesses have to make a profit!!!

The fact of the matter is, what most sucky customers fail to realize about a business is that their primary responsibility is to MAKE MONEY!!! People come into my damn store all the time... wanting something for free or for super-extra discounts on their phones or service or whatever. "You know I've been a customer for blah blah blah" or "Do you know how many problems I've had with Sprint... I deserve blah blah blah." I'm fucking sick of this shit. What kind of business gives everything away? But thats what these morons honestly want. "Is this how you reward customer loyalty?" These people get mad when I tell them that they qualify for the lowest price on any phone! They want an even LOWER price!!!

This isn't any different than any other business. I see the other posts here, like the person that wanted the sale price on the flowers because they rang up more individually (how she chose to purchase them) than on the flat.

What the hell is it with people? Do they not realize that each and every company is in it to make money? If you want something for free find a non-profit organization. Want it for dirt cheap? Get it from Salvation Army. Want it for free? Call Habitat for Humanity.

TO ALL CUSTOMERS: THINGS ARE NOT FREE! OUR INVENTORY COSTS US MONEY! WE DON'T JUST CHARGE FOR THEM BECAUSE WE ARE ASSHOLES, WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO MAKE MONEY OFF OF YOU. AFTER ALL YOU CLEARLY DO NEED OR WANT OUR PRODUCT!

Anyone who is retarded enough to think that our or any business has a moral obligation to give you things because you have bought things from us in the past needs a helmet. We only have one obligation, to MAKE MONEY!!!

Okay, thats it. Just wanted to say that we have the right to make money off of you and even though you don't like it thats how CAPITALISM WORKS.

[Pedersen]

To restate myself from below, so that people can see this first:

Nobody has the right to make a profit. Period. Nobody. Not me, not you, not country leaders, not the mom and pop store down the street. Nobody.

We all have a common responsibility to take care of ourselves. To some degree, that means making a profit off of our actions. So, end result: Businesses have a responsibility to make a profit, but not a right. To make it a right makes it so that other people (usually government) must take effort to ensure that the rights are enforced. That is wrong.

That's all I have to say on this topic.

Its about the right that businesses have to make a profit!!!

Okay, thats it. Just wanted to say that we have the right to make money off of you and even though you don't like it thats how CAPITALISM WORKS.

Ummm, actually, no. No business has a right to make a profit. And stating it that way also indicates that, if a business is failing to make a profit, then some legislation needs to be passed to ensure that the rights are being enforced.

Now, I know that you didn't mean it that way. But stating that there is a right is a very dangerous game.

Here's what rights you do have as a business:

The right to offer goods and services in exchange for cash, goods, or other services (yes, a business can function on the barter system, but they'd best be prepared for the tax hit).

That's it (well, aside from the whole Bill of Rights, and any other rights afforded a natural person).

Yes, business should make money, so that they can stay in business. In order to do that, they need to at least cover their expenses (all of them!). Ideally, they should make some extra, to allow for general business improvements or quality of life improvements for the owners.

But as a right? No. Please don't continue that misperception. It is very counter productive, and could lead into a whole host of other debates which belong on fratching, so I will stop here and not even mention what they are.

[Auto]

Of course businesses have a right to earn a profit. In fact, they have a responsibility to do so, a duty even. Otherwise, what's the point of being a business.

I have no problem telling customers that. I even say that if it were up to me, prices just might be higher than they are -- if I thought I could get customers to pay those higher prices.

I have no patience with customers who think that what we sell ought to be, if not completely free, then as low-priced as possible.

I'll bet they don't feel that way about anything they might happen to be selling. When was the last time you heard of someone refusing to accept the higher price that a customer was willing to pay? I'll bet also that they think their jobs ought to pay more.

[Arcade Man D]

The wording was kinda sketchy. Businesses have the right to work at turning a profit. But there's no inscrutable right to make a profit. If a business fails to make a profit, it's not something the government needs to get involved in, unless said loss was caused by law-breaking.

[angelicafire]

No offense, but I don't think that the OP was suggesting that the government be involved in making laws to help out businesses. He or she was merely suggesting that companies are going to try and earn a profit, and thus not give things away to customers merely because they think they deserve it for "loyalty" to the company.

[Pedersen]

Of course businesses have a right to earn a profit. In fact, they have a responsibility to do so, a duty even. Otherwise, what's the point of being a business.

Let's put that into a statement along with a couple of others, and that will help to illustrate what I am saying a bit better, and why I actually try to prevent people making that exact statement (using USian type terms here):

Businesses have a right to free speech. Businesses have a right to conduct business free from worry about unreasonable search and seizure. Business have a right to earn a profit.

Now, tell me which of those statements do not belong with the others?

Think about it: By stating that a business has a right to a profit, you are stating that the government must ensure that the business will have that profit.

Businesses have the right to try to earn a profit. They have the need to do so. It can even be said they have a duty to so, the responsibility to do so, the desire to do so, etc. But they do not have a right to do so.

Having the mindset that a business has a right to make a profit results in situations where lawsuits happen and laws get made that require people to lose more of their money.

Small difference, but a critical difference: Businesses don't have the right to profit, just the right to try to profit. Then again, so does everybody else.

[SuperB]

I think it's pretty obvious that the OP meant "right to make a profit" in that the business is there paying the mortgage/rent, licenses, fees, insurance, etc - everything required to be in business - and therefore have EVERY right to make a profit.
As a business owner, whose business HAS to support not just my imediate family but my in-law partners as well, I have zero obligation to take a loss on anything I don't choose to and as long as I'm following the law and paying the required fees I have every right to make a profit on each and every sale.

[Pedersen]

I have zero obligation to take a loss on anything I don't choose to and as long as I'm following the law and paying the required fees I have every right to make a profit on each and every sale.

I'm stating this here, and editing my original post in a minute, to try to make this more clear, and then abandoning this thread:

Nobody has the right to make a profit. Period. Nobody. Not me, not you, not country leaders, not the mom and pop store down the street. Nobody.

We all have a common responsibility to take care of ourselves. To some degree, that means making a profit off of our actions. So, end result: Businesses have a responsibility to make a profit, but not a right. To make it a right makes it so that other people (usually government) must take effort to ensure that the rights are enforced. That is wrong.

[SuperB]

No offense but it's my opinion that you are skewing the term "right" here and turning it into an 'absolute', unecessarily.

As it pertains to a customer in my store regarding a product I've paid for and they want, not to mention the fees I'm legally required to pay to be in a position to sell that product, I have a right to make a profit on it, whether anyone likes it or not. I have no obligation to take a loss unless I chose. If I don't chose to give that product away and it is taken, I have the right to call the police and they'll have the right to remain silent.

This in no way means that the government has an "obligation" to keep my business afloat simply because I have the "right" to be paid for my merchandise. As I said, it's not exactly the absolute you make it out to be. Otherwise, the law would not protect a business against shoplifting.

[digilight]

While "Right" may not be the best term. I think we pretty much understand the gist of the OP's message.

As a business owner It is my right to charge whatever amount I see fit for the service or product that I am providing. It is my Duty to attempt to turn a proffit on said services and/or products, otherwise I can't stay in business. Now theres alot that people don't see that goes into the pricing for any product. You have all types of overhead, equipment, rent, taxes, employee costs (if you have employee's) etc, all this has to be covered by the prices you charge.

Now on the otherhand, as a consumer, I have the duty to try and find the lowest price/best deal on whatever product it is that I am purchasing. The costs involved in getting this product and service need to be figured in here as well, S&H, Gas, Time, etc. Does this give me the right as a consumer to be a jerk trying to haggle, bargin, or search out the lowest price? HELL NO. But if you look at it the same way as running a business, which I do since I do my business purchasing the same way as my personal, it all evens out in the end.

I think that the OP's point, is the SC's who want the stores to sell them product below cost and don't care if they make a profit and can stay in business. The people who continually try to scam us and act as if we are the bad guy by sticking by our guns.

[Dark Psion]

Reminds me of a story a co-worker told me once.

His first job was at a little IGA supermarket. He was stock boy and all around gopher (go fer this, go fer that). A lady who took care of the make-up isle had to have surgery and the boss put him in charge of that area for the month she would be gone.

Two weeks into that month, the boss came looking for him, "What the hell did you do?" For the first time in the history of the store, that section made a profit and it was huge surge.

He told his boss that he had discovered that there was virtually no profit margin on any of this merchandise. So he went thru all of it, changing prices to match what other store sold it for.

When the lady came back, she was horrified to see what he had done. "You can't charge more than it cost us, it's not Christian!" Her and the boss had a good fight, but in the end he pointed out that this was a bussiness not a church and while he would agree that basic food stuffs should not be marketed to high, make up was not a neccesity, that is something you can pay a little extra for.

So she quit, and my coworker got a promotion, a raise and a nice bonus as well as a lesson in buisiness 101.

[Seshat]

I agree with both sides here.

The people who run and work in a business have the <insert appropriate term here> to make an honest living.

Whatever term we choose for this should not be on the same level as the term used for 'a person has the <insert term here> to enough nutritious food to survive', which itself should not be on the same level as the term used for 'a person has the <insert term here> to free speech'.

There's a hierarchy of 'rights' and 'privileges', and English doesn't have enough terms in the hierarchy to make the level distinctions clear.

I believe that 'survival' is higher in the hierarchy than 'libertie, egalitie, fraternitie', and that the freedoms the French and Americans (among many others) have fought for are higher than 'making a profit'.

But I think that until we come up with a proper hierarchy of terms for these 'rights/privileges/whatever', we need to accept that people will use whichever term they deem appropriate - or even just whichever term they think of.

"You can't charge more than it cost us, it's not Christian!"

1 Corinthians 9.9 says 'For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?'

(Actually, all of 1 Corinthians 9 is worth keeping to read out to anyone who objects to a fair profit/wage. Especially verses 3 to 12. It's a little out of context, but look at Timothy 5:17 and 5:18 to see what Paul says about people other than himself, and it makes more sense.)

1 Timothy 5:18 says 'For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.'


Both of these are New Testament. Those of you in biblical areas may want to get these printed into a plaque and put up on the wall (Your boss can't object to a bible quote, right? Right?)

[Auto]

Businesses have the right to try to earn a profit. They have the need to do so. It can even be said they have a duty to so, the responsibility to do so, the desire to do so, etc. But they do not have a right to do so.

Small difference, but a critical difference: Businesses don't have the right to profit, just the right to try to profit. Then again, so does everybody else.

Oh, come on. You're playing word games here. This is pedantry at its worst.

In the ordinary meaning of the term, a "right" to do something means I can do it without regard to what anyone else thinks, without their interfering.

If I have a right to sell something, then I can do it without you interfering. And I am free (within broad limits) to merchandise that something in anyway I please in order to attract customers.

That's what we mean when we say "businesses have RIGHT to earn a profit." Observing that they sometimes fail to earn a profit is quibbling.

What got this thread started was someone observing that customers sometimes carp about prices and policies in ways that suggest they don't beleive the store has a right to make a profit.

The right to make a profit is why the store is in business. That this statement implies that the store may fail in its quest to earn a profit is a point we all get.

You're getting lost in semantics, Pedersen.

[SuperB]

Reminds me of a story a co-worker told me once....

When the lady came back, she was horrified to see what he had done. "You can't charge more than it cost us, it's not Christian!" Her and the boss had a good fight, but in the end he pointed out that this was a bussiness not a church and while he would agree that basic food stuffs should not be marketed to high, make up was not a neccesity, that is something you can pay a little extra for.

So she quit, and my coworker got a promotion, a raise and a nice bonus as well as a lesson in buisiness 101.

I'd have used that thought process against her w/regard to her wages.

[Pagan]

Anyone who is retarded enough to think that our or any business has a moral obligation to give you things because you have bought things from us in the past needs a helmet. We only have one obligation, to MAKE MONEY!!!

I know it's so-o-o-o wrong, but this is the image that came to mind! http://www.comedycentral.com/shows/c...ecial_ed.jhtml

Oh, come on. You're playing word games here. This is pedantry at its worst.

You're getting lost in semantics, Pedersen.

You noticed the semantics shenanigans, too?