Ultra Long Stalker Story

[mariamousie1]

What a nutjob. You being uncomfortable should have been all they needed to kick him out, or at least tell him to leave you alone.

[B&NGoddess]

Right, his mental state "fucks" with you. I am completely speechless. It isn't your responsibility to help the guy. It also isn't your responsibility to save a baby from a burning building, or to swerve out of the way of a dog in the road or to help someone up after they fall. But it is the right thing to do. You can't have anyone arrested for being mentally ill, but you can certainly inform the police of a suspicious character. Let them investigate. I used to be one of those who reacted negatively to someone like this. But I realized later that this whole "us versus them" mentality doesn't make me a better person.

goddammit it wasnt his "mental state"! it was him! his mental capabilities were not in question here. he coulda been a law student at harvard for all the fuck that matters. we are not allowed to call 911 for people, ok? calling the police opens a whole can of legal bullshit that my raging coont of a DM can't take the time/energy to deal with. as i said before, theres only so much i can take. ill take a little more if you seem to "have issues", but once a certain point is reached, issues or no, back off before you get stomped.

he was harrassing people, most of all me, and management refused to do anything about it. stalking=fear for my safety, which management ignored. thats the story in a nutshell. the end.

edit: sorry if this came off as excessively bitchy. don't mean to offend.

[Nekojin]

You're not being excessively bitchy, in my book. Robot's comments are uncalled for.

Each person has the primary responsibility to look out for their own safety and well-being first and foremost, before anything else. Right behind that is looking out for the safety and well-being of close family and friends. After that come the safety and well-being of colleagues, co-workers, and peers.

Looking out for the welfare of total strangers marks way down the list. That's not to say that it's unimportant, but there are many other things above it that trump it if there's a conflict. In this case, there was most definitely a conflict, and personal safety comes first. Anyone who says otherwise is deluded, trolling, or a hypocrite.

Edit: Sometimes, welfare of loved ones can and does come before welfare of self. In rare circumstances, welfare of strangers can even come before welfare of self. But it should never be expected that someone would put their welfare above others. Nobody else gets to choose that for me but me.

[GingerBiscuit]

Mentally ill or not, dangerous behaviour is dangerous behaviour. Just because someone may be mentally ill doesn't give them carte blanche to behave like that and not have the person protect themselves.

Having someone behave like that is TERRIFYING. You don't know how it might escalate, and men who behave like this often escalate into following you home and maybe assaulting you. ARe you supposed to let that go because he's mentally ill?

And before you accuse me of not being sympathetic I am, incredibly. I just think if someone is stalking you and scaring you than you are more important than being sympathetic and pussy-footing around their potential mental illness. I know which decision I- and my manager- would make.

Oh, I too have used my boyfriend to scare off unwanted creeps. Typically they've come in at end of day as it's quiet and I can't escape by helping someone else, and that of course, is hen my 6'5" 14stone of muscle boy comes to work to wait until my shift finishes. It's been handy on occasion.

[Gravekeeper]

Right, his mental state "fucks" with you. I am completely speechless. It isn't your responsibility to help the guy. It also isn't your responsibility to save a baby from a burning building, or to swerve out of the way of a dog in the road or to help someone up after they fall. But it is the right thing to do.

Dude, are you even reading the thread? ><

Rant 2.0 Engaged:

This has zero to do with the guy's mental state. He was being stalker-like/obsessive. Which is one of the biggest warning signs there is ( Especially in relationships ). It doesn't matter if he's mentally ill, on drugs or just creepy. He was a potential threat to her safety. Management was sucking. The police usually have their hands tied with this too. They can't do anything until the guy does something outright bad. By that time its usually too late.

Even if the guy WAS mentally ill you cannot force treatment on him unless he consents to it. You can't just call up some magic hot line and have him whisked away to some place that'll make him all better. Best the cops can do ( Management willing ) is chat with him, ask him to leave then if he comes back, stick him with trespassing. Thats it. Thats all they can do. Same if he's stalking. There's not much he can do until AFTER he commits some form of "real" crime such as assault or god knows what else.

You need a court order from a judge to force treatment without consent on someone who is mentally ill and that generally won't happen unless they are REALLY out there and until after they prove a threat to either themselves or someone else. IE not until after a serious crime has been committed or they've seriously injured themselves. Long as the guy is lucid enough to say "No." there's not a lot you can do and certainly no magic fix it fairy just waiting for some good samaritan to click their heels together 3 times before they can whisk in and wave the guy's mental problems away.

As for your analogies. Its comparing apples to tile grout. The "right thing to do" in a situation like this is ensure the safety of your employees in what could escalate into a dangerous situation. Period.

Heck:

1) Saving a baby from a burning building:

An idealistic situation that requires a shitload of factors ( Someone actually left the kid in the building. You actually know there's a kid in the building. The fire dept sleeps through the alarm. Etc etc )

Besides, the right thing to do and the first thing they train you on in practically every first aid / emergency response course is to assess the situation and ensure you are not in jeopardy nor will providing aid put you in danger. An untrained person running into a burning building is, ironically, liable to be the casualty after the fire dept arrives and saves the kid. They beat this into your head over and over, do NOT be a casualty yourself. Do all you can to notify the proper authorities and provide them with as much information/support that you can. But do NOT be a hero.

They teach you this because you're more likely to create more problems by trying to handle the situation yourself. ( IE now they have to save both of you. Or they save the kid and recover your charred corpse from the first floor. ).

Same reason corporate typically has a no resistance policy vs robberies. The sheer amount of shitstorm that could result if you try to be a hero and end up being hurt or killed vastly outweighs recovering the $100 and rack of cigarettes some knob ran off with. Thats why you get the guys description and try for a license plate number then let the cops handle it.

Ever notice how every "hero" story you see on the news always ends with some cop, fireman, etc saying something like "Well, we pat him on the back for doing it but please God don't try and do this yourself. He was lucky he wasn't hurt/killed/etc. Let us do it. PLEASE."

Yeah.


2) Swerving to miss a dog.

This is a split second reactionary situation. You will swerve to avoid anything that dives out in front of your vehicle regardless. Its not a matter of right or wrong. if you have to swerve its because you didn't have enough time to react to break. If you hit it, its because you didn't have enough time to react at all.

If you actually have enough time to mentally debate the morality of "Should I run this dog over or not?" you have plenty of time to break.


3) Helping someone up from a fall.

Yes, that is the right thing to do. But its not even remotely comparable to fear and terror that a stalker victim endures or letting a potential threat to your entire staff/customers hang out in the store.

I'm sure "Oh he was just mentally ill" would be a great comfort to grieving family members. =p

End Rant 2.0.

Hissss~

[Gravekeeper]

Oh, and

www.fratching.com

Pre-emptive strike!

[queenbb]

i started reading this thread the other day, and then yesterday at work while i had some down time i had to take care of a few trainings. and what do i click on, safety in the work place.

which means that if there is someone or somthing that is potentialy harmful to the customers or employees we need to take care of it.

i didnt get all the way through the training before i had to work with some customers, and i didnt get back to it since (i had to leave early for a drs appt and they took me off work for a few days)

from what i have seen at our store, when there is a customer who is a threat, and this particular persons behavior would have been considered a threat, first we call the lp guys and they take care of it from there,

one particularly threatening customer, who was yelling mostly ended up being physically removed from the store, by lp, 6 managers and then the police were called.

i belive they try to work out it first and then get the police involved if nessisary, and since the op's sc left when asked and hasnt returned since i dont think that would have been an issue.

having been the victim of stalking, i do take it seriously i would not have let this particular sc follow me around, i would have gotten the lp guys in on it asap.

[Andara Bledin]

Mostly what Nekojin & Gravekeeper said. Seriously.

Rule #1 of any and every situation is to Take care of yourself. First off, if you don't take care of yourself, someone else is going to end up having to, which makes you a liability. Second, if you are not taken care of, then you have no real ability to take care of others. So, first rule, make sure you keep yourself safe.

After that, you can go down the list of other people to take care of. Following yourself would be dependants and others who can't generally take care of themselves that you can take care of. Then you've got other family and friends, then coworkers and colleagues, then acquaintances, and after all that, comes random strangers.

So, in any case of stalking behavior, no matter the cause, the stalker in question is almost always at least the third down on the list, and often much further.

^-.-^

[Canarr]

Also, I have to comment on the whole "we have to wait until he does something really bad" line from management. That is exactly the issue that surrounds stalking. "Aw, he's just giving you attention, there's nothing wrong with that" or "it's annoying. Ignore him and he'll go away." Sorry, but most of the time, by the time something bad enough happens, it's too late.

You're right. Personally, I'm happy they got the Anti-Stalking-Law through here in Germany early this year. Now, Stalking alone, without any other crime being committed, can get you up to three years in prison. More, if the victim or anyone else gets hurt in the process.

[Misanthropical]

In PA, you can't charge anyone with stalking, even if they are stalking you, unless you were married to the person stalking you or dated them.

[Canarr]

Hypothetically speaking: if someone were stalking you, how long would you then have to date them before being able to charge them?

Seriously, this never made sense to me. Stalking is a crime in itself, and should be punishable accordingly.

[Kara]

edit: sorry if this came off as excessively bitchy. don't mean to offend.

Don't wory about it. You're perfectly within your legal right to be excessively bitchy (you weren't) to someone being excessively stupid.

Whether or not a mental handicap is even relevent (it's not), can you see it with your own eyes? If you see a guy coming in all the time, staring at you, trying to talk to you, trying to be close to you, and you have a bad feeling about it, that's far more important than stopping to think "Gee, I bet this guy has some kind of mental problem. I shouldn't try to avoid him, I should try to help him." Then, when they find your mutilated remains, your friends will be on the evening news saying, "She was only trying to help him!" The world has gone to hell. You can't trust anyone anymore. Today, a good Samaratin wind up hurt, scammed out of all their money, or dead. Cynical? Maybe, but at least I'm still here and in one piece. In fact, if mental problems are a piece of the puzzle, that's all the more reason to be cautious. To them, tying you up peeling your skin off might seem perfectly reasonable. That doesn't make it right. That doesn't make them any less dangerous. I swear, girls have some kind of spider sense. We can usually tell when someone is bad news. If your alarm goes off, it's best to trust your instincts.

That's not to say people with mental illness are all dangerous. There was a guy that used to come in and talk to me when I worked Video at Kroger. He was loud, obnoxious, and slow. He used to be very intelligent. I worked with some people who went to college with him. He drank his brains out. Literally. He got brain damage from all the crap he put in his body and was left with only a childish comprehension level. He hung out at most video stores around town, so I saw quite a bit of him. Did I feel threatened? No, it was clear he was harmless. But if a guy like B&NGoddess encountered did that to me, I would definitely be afraid. Mental impairment has nothing whatsoever to do with it.

If you are confused about showing sympathy towards someone's condition and ignoring clear warning signs to watch your ass, then I say, good luck to you. Hopefully if you find yourself in such a situation, there will be others around you who possess common sense enough to keep you from merrily skipping along into a savage, brutal death at the hands of someone you mistakenly tried to "help."

[BookstoreEscapee]

from what i have seen at our store, when there is a customer who is a threat, and this particular persons behavior would have been considered a threat, first we call the lp guys and they take care of it from there,

One issue with the OP, though, is that while some B&N stores do have security guards, most do not have dedicated 'Loss Prevention' employees in the store. The company does have an LP department on the corporate level (and there are regional LP managers), and some stores in certain areas have uniformed guards on the premises, but in most stores "LP" is just the employees and managers and the LP philosophy is mainly about maintaining a presence to deter shoplifters. In the OP's case, if the manager on duty is not willing to do anything, at the immediate store level, there most likely is not anyone else to go to.

[queenbb]

and that is a sad thing that the manager didnt want to do anything about it.

is there a way the op can contact b&n corporate and see if there is a p&p on what to do in that situation. i would be curious to find out.

most places of employment have p&p set in place for all sorts of incidents.

[BookstoreEscapee]

and that is a sad thing that the manager didnt want to do anything about it.

is there a way the op can contact b&n corporate and see if there is a p&p on what to do in that situation. i would be curious to find out.

most places of employment have p&p set in place for all sorts of incidents.

There is the "We Listen" line that she could call. It's for anyone with any kind of issue, problem, suggestion, or complaint. I've never used it, though. I don't know what their procedures are for follow-up. But they do issue wallet-size cards for each employee to keep on hand, and they should also have the info posted in their break room.