I don't want to be an SC....

[IHateStupidCustomers]

Okay....I don't really know if I put this thread in the right place, so sorry if I didn't!
And sorry if it gets a little long...

Basically I'm having a bunch of problems with my internet air card for my laptop, which I have through my cell phone provider. I'll give you the gist of the story:

The internet hasn't been working right for about two weeks. It would intermittently say "no wireless device detected" when the air card was inserted and should be recognized. So, basically, sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't. Then it quite working period a few days or so ago. We called, and talked to several people before a tech finally said to go to a corporate store, use their free wifi and download an updated version of some software so that the computer will recognize the card again. Seemed simple enough. That conversation was about an hour or so.

So, last night we drive 20-25 minutes to get to a corporate store. First person says their wifi isn't working, we probably have a defective card, we need to call CS to get a new one under warranty. Call CS from a phone at the store, talk to three different people before getting a tech. During all this, we get a manager at the store who says they do not have wifi period. Then the tech walks us through a bunch of stuff on the computer. End result put us in the same place: no internet. Now we have to wait for a call back from someone about possibly getting a new card sent out. We were at the store for about 2 1/2 hours.

And to top it off, school starts Monday, and my boyfriend and I both have some online classes.

The manager at the store told us to call CS back today and ask for a credit on our account for our trouble and for the time we haven't been able to use the internet. Do you guys think I should? Would I be an SC??

Thanks for the help.

[trunks2k]

I'm confuddled as to why they sent you all the way down to the apple store to connect to working internet. That doesn't make any sense at all. The computer couldn't even recognize the card. Why did they think it would magically work at the apple store?

[IHateStupidCustomers]

I'm confuddled as to why they sent you all the way down to the apple store to connect to working internet. That doesn't make any sense at all. The computer couldn't even recognize the card. Why did they think it would magically work at the apple store?

They wanted me to use their wifi...which I don't exactly know what it stands for (I'm pretty darned computer-stupid, which makes this all the more fun) but it's basically like a modem where if you're within a certain range of it, you can get on the internet, whether you have any kind of internet service already. Most places it's free, like at school. I know Starbucks charges for it, though.

[trunks2k]

They wanted me to use their wifi...which I don't exactly know what it stands for (I'm pretty darned computer-stupid, which makes this all the more fun) but it's basically like a modem where if you're within a certain range of it, you can get on the internet, whether you have any kind of internet service already. Most places it's free, like at school. I know Starbucks charges for it, though.

Yes, I understand. I know what wifi is :P

But the problem is:

1. Internet access is (for the most part) internet access. And wifi is wifi, pretty much every wireless router uses one of the same set of protocols (802.11a/b/g/n), and your card probably understands any of those protocols. Going to the coffee shop around the corner and using their wifi or plugging the computer directly into your modem/router at home will give you the same result. No reason to go to an apple store to get internet access.

2. The computer didn't recognize the wifi card. If it's not recognizing the card, it's not going to work no matter where you go.

They wanted you to install new drivers you are supposed to download from the internet. Why in the world they would send you all the way to an apple store is beyond me. You should just be able to take an ethernet cable and hook it into your computer and router. Then you'll have internet access. Then go to whatever site has the driver to download.

[Pedersen]

1. Internet access is (for the most part) internet access. Going to the coffee shop around the corner and using their wifi or plugging the computer directly into your modem/router at home will give you the same result. No reason to go to an apple store to get internet access.

Actually, from the sounds of it, this is not a WiFi card. We sell similar where I work. It's a high speed cellular connection. Verizon, Sprint, and T-Mobile all have them, and use different names, including Edge and EVDO.

Basically, this card was not going over the cellular network. If they only have this card for internet access (which is actually fairly reasonable/possible), then they wouldn't have any router/modem at home at all.

So, yeah, I could see sending them to the store for free WiFi.

[IHateStupidCustomers]

Yes, I understand. I know what wifi is :P

But the problem is:

1. Internet access is (for the most part) internet access. And wifi is wifi, pretty much every wireless router uses one of the same set of protocols (802.11a/b/g/n), and your card probably understands any of those protocols. Going to the coffee shop around the corner and using their wifi or plugging the computer directly into your modem/router at home will give you the same result. No reason to go to an apple store to get internet access.

2. The computer didn't recognize the wifi card. If it's not recognizing the card, it's not going to work no matter where you go.

They wanted you to install new drivers you are supposed to download from the internet. Why in the world they would send you all the way to an apple store is beyond me. You should just be able to take an ethernet cable and hook it into your computer and router. Then you'll have internet access. Then go to whatever site has the driver to download.

Hhmm...I might be not understanding right...but, I just have that card, that's the only way I can get on the internet. Except for wifi "hotspots" like school or something. I don't have a router at home or anything like that. Apparently this is something new and no one really knows anything about it.

I just want to give the computer to someone and say "MAKE IT WORK, PLEASE!" But no one at the store (cell phone corporate store) will touch the computer for liability reasons.

[trunks2k]

Hhmm...I might be not understanding right...but, I just have that card, that's the only way I can get on the internet. Except for wifi "hotspots" like school or something. I don't have a router at home or anything like that. Apparently this is something new and no one really knows anything about it.

o.O

Wireless internet isn't anything new. Tech support should know a lot about it. It's been around for more than 5 years. We're on the 4th generation of wireless protocols. Unless I'm drastically misunderstanding how apple users use an airport card. Apple users, that is just a wireless adapter, correct? ETA: looked it up, that's what it seems to be - supports 802.11a/b/g/n

A "hot spot" is just someone that has a wireless router set up and open to the public. Almost every coffee shop has a "hot spot", it's usually just a cheap Linksys router you can get at BestBuy. The router is (in most cases) just connected to a DSL/Cable modem so that the internet connection can be shared. Since you have the card, I just assumed you had wireless internet at home (and this have a wireless router and a DSL/Cable modem).

Since you don't have internet at home, it's a bit more understandable why they sent you all the way to the apple store - a place they know should have an internet connection. In that case, what they may have meant was to go to the store and have someone at the store physically connect your laptop to the internet via a cat5 cable (somewhere on your laptop there is probably a port that looks like a phone jack, only wider, that's your standard network adapter that you plug a cat5 cable into) and download the drivers.

[IHateStupidCustomers]

o.O

Wireless internet isn't anything new. Tech support should know a lot about it. It's been around for more than 5 years. We're on the 4th generation of wireless protocols. Unless I'm drastically misunderstanding how apple users use an airport card. Apple users, that is just a wireless adapter, correct? ETA: looked it up, that's what it seems to be - supports 802.11a/b/g/n

A "hot spot" is just someone that has a wireless router set up and open to the public. Almost every coffee shop has a "hot spot", it's usually just a cheap Linksys router you can get at BestBuy. The router is (in most cases) just connected to a DSL/Cable modem so that the internet connection can be shared. Since you have the card, I just assumed you had wireless internet at home (and this have a wireless router and a DSL/Cable modem).

Since you don't have internet at home, it's a bit more understandable why they sent you all the way to the apple store - a place they know should have an internet connection. In that case, what they may have meant was to go to the store and have someone at the store physically connect your laptop to the internet via a cat5 cable (somewhere on your laptop there is probably a port that looks like a phone jack, only wider, that's your standard network adapter that you plug a cat5 cable into) and download the drivers.

Yes, I think that's what they were getting at...but, problem is: the store (att/cingular store, btw) says they don't have wifi at all, period. I guess I will have to try it somewhere else.

But, do you guys think I will be an SC if I call and ask for a credit on my bill for the time I haven't been able to use the internet and the all the trouble? I don't ever do that....the manager at the store suggested I do, though. And, it sounds reasonable, but I don't know.

[trunks2k]

Just so you know how it all works in most cases (I'm talking about the most common home uses, not fancy stuff that may use different protocols and equipment):

A given person connects to the internet via a modem given to them by their ISP, for the sake of simplicity I'm discussing only Cable and DSL, not dial up. I'm also totally simplifiying the whole thing, so for those sticklers for total accuracy, don't bother, I know it's not 100% accurate, but close enough to get the idea.

The communication protocols between the modem and your ISP are a bit complex and not necessarily standardized, but you don't need to concern yourself with that. The modem has a port on the back that looks like a phone jack (only wider), this is an "RJ45 jack"/"Ethernet port", which is used by cat 5 cables. Almost all modern computers come with the same type of port on them somewhere.

Now, you can use a cat-5 cable to hook your computer directly to the internet and viola! You have internet access. The communications between the modem and computer is a standardized protocol so just about any computer can understand it. This protocol is "TCP/IP".

But that only allows a single computer to connect to that modem. If you want multiple computers to use the same internet connection, you need to use a router (or a switch, but we'll stick with routers). A router will take that single connection to the internet and allow multiple computers use it at once. A basic router will usually have four additional ethernet ports on it, through which you can connect 4 different computers to. That exact same protocol is used between a router and computer as is used between the modem and a computer. So any computer should be able to connect to any router.

As of right now, everything is connected via physical cables. Now, we want to be able to use the computer wirelessly. So somehow that TCP/IP protocol needs to be transmitted over the air. This is done via another protocol called 802.11x where x is a,b,g, or n. N is the most recent version that I know of. A wireless router will take that TCP/IP protocol and "wrap" it in a 802.11x protocol and send it out over the air. Your aircard listens for that 802.11x and essentially translates it back into TCP/IP so that your computer understands it.

Notice how these protocols are the same regardless of the type of computer. This is what allows a Mac to work on the same wireless connection as say, an IBM laptop.

Yes, I think that's what they were getting at...but, problem is: the store (att/cingular store, btw) says they don't have wifi at all, period. I guess I will have to try it somewhere else.

Just to correct your terms some. When you say "wifi" you are talking about wireless internet. Your wifi wouldn't work no matter what, and the apple store may not have had Wifi. BUT I would expect an apple store to still have an internet connection that you could physically plug into (with a cable) and download the required driver for your card. You might not be able to really test to see if the card is fully working there, but at least you'd have the up to date drivers.

Whether or not they would let you do that is a whole other question.

[IHateStupidCustomers]

Just so you know how it all works in most cases (I'm talking about the most common home uses, not fancy stuff that may use different protocols and equipment):

A given person connects to the internet via a modem given to them by their ISP, for the sake of simplicity I'm discussing only Cable and DSL, not dial up.

The communication protocols between the modem and your ISP are a bit complex and not necessarily standardized, but you don't need to concern yourself with that. The modem has a port on the back that looks like a phone jack (only wider), this is an "RJ45 jack"/"Ethernet port", which is used by cat 5 cables. Almost all modern computers come with the same type of port on them somewhere.

Now, you can use a cat-5 cable to hook your computer directly to the internet and viola! You have internet access. The communications between the modem and computer is a standardized protocol so just about any computer can understand it. This protocol is "TCP/IP".

But that only allows a single computer to connect to that modem. If you want multiple computers to use the same internet connection, you need to use a router (or a switch, but we'll stick with routers). A router will take that single connection to the internet and allow multiple computers use it at once. A basic router will usually have four additional ethernet ports on it, through which you can connect 4 different computers to. That exact same protocol is used between a router and computer as is used between the modem and a computer. So any computer should be able to connect to any router.

As of right now, everything is connected via physical cables. Now, we want to be able to use the computer wirelessly. So somehow that TCP/IP protocol needs to be transmitted over the air. This is done via another protocol called 802.11x where x is a,b,g, or n. N is the most recent version that I know of. A wireless router will take that TCP/IP protocol and "wrap" it in a 802.11x protocol and send it out over the air. Your aircard listens for that 802.11x and essentially translates it back into TCP/IP so that your computer understands it.

Notice how these protocols are the same regardless of the type of computer. This is what allows a Mac to work on the same wireless connection as say, an IBM laptop.

I don't know if that necessarily pertains to me...I don't have a router or anything. Just a little card from my cell phone provider that plugs into a USB port on my laptop, so I can get the internet on my laptop anywhere I get cell phone service. No cables or routers. All through cell phone towers, I guess.

I really just want to know if I should ask for a credit for my trouble and the time I haven't been able to use the internet....or if I would be a sucky customer if I did.

Just to correct your terms some. When you say "wifi" you are talking about wireless internet. Your wifi wouldn't work no matter what, and the apple store may not have had Wifi. BUT I would expect an apple store to still have an internet connection that you could physically plug into (with a cable) and download the required driver for your card. You might not be able to really test to see if the card is fully working there, but at least you'd have the up to date drivers.

Whether or not they would let you do that is a whole other question.

I guess my terms are a little off. The CSR or tech person I talked to said that the corporate store had free wifi, so I could bring the laptop in and download the drivers, I guess. The manager at the store said they didn't have wifi and their internet is on a secure network or something, so they can't hook up any outside computers to their internet.

It's an att/cingular store, btw. Not an apple store. Although I don't really know if it makes much of a difference.

I just really want to know if I should ask for a credit for the time I haven't been able to use the internet and for the trouble, or if I would be a Sucky Customer.

[trunks2k]

I don't know if that necessarily pertains to me...I don't have a router or anything. Just a little card from my cell phone provider that plugs into a USB port on my laptop, so I can get the internet on my laptop anywhere I get cell phone service. No cables or routers. All through cell phone towers, I guess.

OHhhhhhhhhhhhhh... that's a little different I believe. OK things are becoming a bit clearer now. That makes your whole "it's a new thing" comment make much more sense. Previously to getting this device from your cell phone provder, were you able to get wireless internet at certain places, i.e. school? I think the "hot spot" thing is when the card you have detects an available wifi connection (of the type I was discussing) and instead of talking to the cell phone towers, it uses the available wifi, which would be faster and cheaper.


This is why I prefer more technical definitions for things. When marketing people take over words like "hot spot" and "wi fi", it makes it hard to know exactly what we're talking about.

[IHateStupidCustomers]

OHhhhhhhhhhhhhh... that's a little different I believe. OK things are becoming a bit clearer now. That makes your whole "it's a new thing" comment make much more sense. Previously to getting this device from your cell phone provder, were you able to get wireless internet at certain places, i.e. school? I think the "hot spot" thing is when the card you have detects an available wifi connection (of the type I was discussing) and instead of talking to the cell phone towers, it uses the available wifi, which would be faster and cheaper.

My laptop has some sort of built-in wifi. Meaning, before I ever got internet through my cell phone company, or anywhere else for that matter, I could get on the internet in "hotspot" areas, like school. But, that's just in those areas. The card through my cell phone company lets me get internet anyway. Like, my house, for example. It's not a hotspot, so I have to pay for internet in order to get it. I chose the air card through my cell phone company (att) instead of internet through the cable company or somewhere where it would JUST be able to be used on a home computer, because I'm only at home for a few hours a day, to sleep basically.

I know that some people here work for cell phone companies, and I think asking for a credit on my bill isn't too unreasonable, but I just wanted some outside opinions. I'd hate to be an SC.

[trunks2k]

My laptop has some sort of built-in wifi. Meaning, before I ever got internet through my cell phone company, or anywhere else for that matter, I could get on the internet in "hotspot" areas, like school. But, that's just in those areas.

Ah yes, now it makes much much much more sense. I thought you had an apple airport card, which is basically the thing you have built into your computer, and that's what was not working. Which is why I was confused why they'd send you to try and connect to a wireless internet connection when the thing that makes your connection work is broken.

So were you talking to apple on the phone or you cell phone company?

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for a a credit towards the time you were unable to use the service.

[IHateStupidCustomers]

Ah yes, now it makes much much much more sense. I thought you had an apple airport card, which is basically the thing you have built into your computer, and that's what was not working. Which is why I was confused why they'd send you to try and connect to a wireless internet connection when the thing that makes your connection work is broken.

So were you talking to apple on the phone or you cell phone company?

I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for a a credit towards the time you were unable to use the service.

I was talking to the cell phone provider, at&t, no apple. I have a toshiba laptop, not apple, anyway.

I'm glad you think it's not too unreasonable to ask for a credit. That was basically what I was getting at.

[trunks2k]

I was talking to the cell phone provider, at&t, no apple. I have a toshiba laptop, not apple, anyway.

D'oh! I misread your first post, I thought you said "airport card" (an apple product), but you said "air card". Therein lies my confusion. Damnit marketers, come up with some more identifiable names for things!