sucky mom, kids, and manager at restaurant

[ladodger34]

I'm terrible at writing shorter stories, but I'm going to try....

Fiance, myself, and her family went out for her birthday on Sunday. She teaches at the closest highschool to the restaurant. We usually run into past and present students when we go to this joint. This is her 4th year teaching and for the most part, her classes are freshman only. She might get a few kids for various reasons (transfers, failed class before) but 95% of her students are freshman.

Next to us was a mom, a couple of girls, and a group guys that were friends with the girls. Boys sit down and order a pitcher of beer. Fiance looks over and says (paraphrase) "I wonder if they are going to get carded, because I know those kids are seniors". Server doesn't card them. She was going to let it go, even though it kind of bugged her. Hell, if I was a server I would have carded them when they asked if the place had Corona on tap.

Back to the story. She was going to let it go until the boys started being loud and obnoxious. Every other word out of their mouth was the f-bomb. They were talking about f-ing this girl and that girl and blah blah. Oh yeah, and the mom was still there. We figured she was trying to be the "cool" mom. One of the girls also bragged that "I told you not to worry. They never card us here." At that point in time, fiance had heard enough. On the way out to pay the bill, she spoke with the manager just to kind of give her a heads up. It wasn't a complaint, just a general "Hey, I wanted to let you know what's going on in your restaurant" type of thing.

You know what the manager said? "I know one of those girls is older than 21." My fiance told her that while she was pretty sure that one who was "21" was a senior in high school, she knew that the other ones were seniors for sure. We kind of got the general idea that the manager knew the mom and didn't give a damn about the underaged drinking.

Sorry about the long story, but do you think we should go over the manager's head? We aren't looking to get anything out of it of course, I'd just rather not see the restaurant get into trouble with the authorities because it is a good place to eat.

[Der Cute]

I'd write a letter to the Alcohol people in your state govt.

Spell out what you did *dates & times etc* and what you OBSERVED. Not what you THINK happened, what you observed.

Send a copy to the corporate mgmt people also, and state, "I'm glad to eat here, I enjoy the food/atmosphere, but I am displeased at the attitude of the mgmt regarding alcohol control"

Right?

Dont ask for anything, send it as more of a "heads up/ observance" letter.

If required the rest. may need to show proof of TAM cards & training for servers. Might be nice.

Cute

[lordlundar]

Sheesh. I better not show this post to my dad. He works security at a local hotel/bar/liquor store and he goes ape**** whenever he sees this at any place. He's on very good terms with the Alberta Liquor Board because of all the reports he's filed.

If he was told what you were, he would simply say "you just lost your licence." leave and phone the Board. Place would be shut down before that family finished their meal.

[RecoveringKinkoid]

You might like eating there, but think about this? If they are willing to ignore a law of that magnitude, and associated with extremely heavy penalties, what other regulations are they ignoring?

I mean, you EAT there, you know? It might be unsafe and unsanitary back there.

[Phone Jockey]

Some people never cease to amaze me. Seriously.

[csdrone]

You might like eating there, but think about this? If they are willing to ignore a law of that magnitude, and associated with extremely heavy penalties, what other regulations are they ignoring?

I mean, you EAT there, you know? It might be unsafe and unsanitary back there.

Good point. I would write to corporate about this issue though.

[phillippbo]

In all honesty, in this case it depends on what you would like to happen. If you want to let the owner know of something they may not be aware of, by all means go over the manager's head with a letter explaining what you saw and give it some time. If they are serious about fixing the issue, you should notice a change in the attitude, or even an appreciative letter explaining what they intend to do. After all, I don't know of any business person who wouldn't love for a customer to tell them of a potential problem before it actually costs them a lot of money and possibly their business.

If you feel that the owners don't care, or you want to see action taken, send a "concerned citizen" letter to your local alcohol board. I can't attest for what they might do there, but around here when a complaint is received they will generally be put on a list to have a sting operation, or will be watched more closely to see if there are more complaints. (Not as "CSI" as it sounds, though, they send someone in who's either underage or appears to be underage to try to buy alcohol.) Around here, its possible for a restaurant to only lose their alcohol license without actually going out of business (depending on the restaurant, the liqour license could make or break them, though). That'd stink to be the bartender there, though....

[ladodger34]

You might like eating there, but think about this? If they are willing to ignore a law of that magnitude, and associated with extremely heavy penalties, what other regulations are they ignoring?

I mean, you EAT there, you know? It might be unsafe and unsanitary back there.

I should have clarified that part. I like eating at the joint and I don't want to see it go away because the manager doesn't mind serving minors. I wouldn't mind reporting the manager to the owner or to proper authorities. I would hope that if it was reported to the owners, they would crack down on it. If need be, I wouldn't mind seeing them get busted once to pound the point home.

Looking back it, the managers attitude is what pissed us off the most. We never saw her in our section, but she knew that one girls was over 21? It just didn't add up. That's why we sort of assumed that she knew the mom.

[dispatch]

ok, so the manager "knew" that one of them was "at least 21", but any good server knows you have to card everyone drinking.
I'd call or write to someone above the manager, because for an establishment to lose it's liquor licence right at the beginning of football season and just in time for the holidays would be catastrophic for their reputation and revenue

[friendofjimmyk]

Well, the bartenders have the final say in any situation whether to serve someone or not...if the manager tries to make the bartender serve, they can still refuse, leaving the manager the one doing the serving of the said minors...

If this restuarant is part of a chain or franchise, you can bet your bottom dollar that the corporation that owns the chain would not be so happy to hear this...

I would've called the local liquor board and sent a letter to the owner of the restuarant...

[ladodger34]

Well, the bartenders have the final say in any situation whether to serve someone or not...if the manager tries to make the bartender serve, they can still refuse, leaving the manager the one doing the serving of the said minors...

If this restuarant is part of a chain or franchise, you can bet your bottom dollar that the corporation that owns the chain would not be so happy to hear this...

I would've called the local liquor board and sent a letter to the owner of the restuarant...

There isn't a bar at this place, but they serve beer and wine. Alot of places in CA have liquor licenses that are only for beer and wine. Without a bar, there is no bartender. I'm guessing that the manager has a total say on that type of stuff.

Even though they serve beer and wine, it is really a family oriented place. The cursing and them being served underage is what really got us. I'm not one of those "it's for the kids" type of people, but there are certain social norms that people should follow when they are out in public.

[Jester]

Next to us was a mom, a couple of girls, and a group guys that were friends with the girls. Boys sit down and order a pitcher of beer. Fiance looks over and says (paraphrase) "I wonder if they are going to get carded, because I know those kids are seniors". Server doesn't card them. She was going to let it go, even though it kind of bugged her. Hell, if I was a server I would have carded them when they asked if the place had Corona on tap.

Well, the bartenders have the final say in any situation whether to serve someone or not...if the manager tries to make the bartender serve, they can still refuse, leaving the manager the one doing the serving of the said minors...

A few notes here.

1. I never card people until they actually order something. They can ask what is on tap, but if they haven't ordered anything, I don't see the point in carding them, until they either attempt to purchase alcohol or try to drink someone else's drink. At which point I card anyone who looks 30 or under, as per state law.

2. The bartender does not have the final say per se. The person who is serving them, be it a bartender or a waiter/waitress is the one responsible for making sure they are of legal drinking age. One obvious reason for this is that in many places, the bartender is not located in a spot where they can see everyone, and chances are that they will be too busy to see beyond the bar patrons, so they have to rely on the servers to do their jobs. Which, in this case, it seems was not done.

3. Attitude by management sucked in this, pure and simple, and if I were the owner of that establishment, I would have been furious, due to the very serious legal and financial repercussions that could occur. The problem here as the outsider (your fiancee) is that reporting it to the authorities could mean a world of hurt for the server themselves. In the two states I have worked the majority of my career in, the server would (a) lose their job (b) have a court date, which would (c) cause them a hefty fine and/or prison time, and (d) would make it very difficult or impossible to get another serving job (in Florida you cannot be in a position to serve alcohol for five years after such an incident...in Arizona, it just made it pragmatically difficult when one would be applying for a new job). Other states may vary, but I believe most of them are comparable.

4. There is the possibility that there were fake ID's involved. You said when you got there they were already drinking (if I read it right), and the server might have already carded them. I know of one instance where I was at a club and saw two people I knew were under 21 in there. Normally I would not have cared, but I was working at that club, and liked it, and did not want it to get in any legal trouble, so I told the bouncer to make sure he carded them. His response: "I already did. Their ID's look fine to me." Translation: very good fake ID's.

5. I card hard, and in 20 years (may the gods help me!) in the industry, I have only once had a manager not back me when I did. But I have also encountered people too lazy to card, and people who don't care, and people who are too scared to. Actually worked with a guy years ago who said "I'm not losing a tip just to card those people!" Myself, I would rather lose a $10-20 tip (or higher) than worry about all the potential legal, financial, and occupational ramifications if I don't card.

6. The server in this situation did not do their job, period, for whatever reason. However, the manager really dropped the ball. This may be an institutional thing at that establishment, or it may just be those two individuals. Personally, I think that if you feel the need to do something about this, it would be better all around for the individual and the existence of the establishment if you talked to the owner/person over the manager's head. The server might still get fired, the manager will probably get in trouble, but there will be a lot less legal hassles for all around, and a more likely chance of said establishment surviving for you and others to continue to enjoy.

[karma_gypsy]

Well, I don't think it's a bad thing, if it happens once, it's gonna happen again right?

Plus, what if you were one of the kids' mother? Would you want your underaged teen drinking at a nearby restaurant? Their may have been an 'adult' present, but I don't think that's a good enough reason to be serving kids alcohol...

[repsac]

Contact your local Police Dept, or the one who has jurisdiction over that restraunt, and chances are you'll get a reward. They, on the other hand, will lose their liquor liscense.

I'd also write corporate, and be sure to include MGR's name.

[Tanasi]

IMHO you should have called the law when they were served their first beer. As the evening went on and they became more obniouxious they were obviously intoxicated. I wonder how many drove home?
Also in IMHO after the manager poo-pood you, you should have called the law at that time and told the LEOs when they got there. Hopefully they would have arrested the kids, ticketed the server, arrested the manager, and patted you on the back. I realise that you like the joint but they're creating a public danger by serving underaged kids and then allowing said kids to leave and possiblily drive. What's more important to you a place to eat or you conscious?