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**crazylegs** · 07-18-2008, 08:25 PM

Glad to hear that things are going well, I was wondering where you'd got to!

It flabbergasts me that people expect services to be given free, just because there is no tangible 'goods' provided (with the obvious exception here) doesn't mean we still don't need to eat etc.

**South Texan** · 07-18-2008, 08:51 PM

Quoth NotSoInnocent View Post

PC: But it doesn't cost you anything to do this. Why do I have to pay you???

Oh jeez, I get that one all the time. Mine usually is along the lines of "You're supposed to want to help people. All you care about is money."

Sorry, I have to earn a living just like everyone else does. Are THEY willing to work at their jobs for no pay? I thought not.

**RichS** · 07-18-2008, 09:16 PM

Quoth NotSoInnocent View Post

PC: But it doesn't cost you anything to do this. Why do I have to pay you???

As a tech, you hear variants of this. I hate it with a passion. It's as if the years of learning, training, experience, and time spent working on their system instead of on something you want to do don't count.

It looks easy? I make it look easy due to the reasons above, pay me!!!

**South Texan** · 07-18-2008, 10:17 PM

Quoth RichS View Post

It looks easy? I make it look easy due to the reasons above, pay me!!!

Ack! Another one that drives me crazy:
"Well, I could have done that just as well as you, so why should I pay you?"

Because you do not hold the license I do nor have the training I do AND because YOU CAME TO ME AND ASKED ME TO DO IT FOR YOU. Sure, it looks easy - because I have the training and the expertise to do it right the first time. THAT is what you agreed to pay me to do for you. So, YES, I AM going to hold you to the contract you signed.

**tropicsgoddess** · 07-19-2008, 04:10 AM

Quoth South Texan View Post

Ack! Another one that drives me crazy:
"Well, I could have done that just as well as you, so why should I pay you?"

Because you do not hold the license I do nor have the training I do AND because YOU CAME TO ME AND ASKED ME TO DO IT FOR YOU. Sure, it looks easy - because I have the training and the expertise to do it right the first time. THAT is what you agreed to pay me to do for you.

Quoth RichS View Post

As a tech, you hear variants of this. I hate it with a passion. It's as if the years of learning, training, experience, and time spent working on their system instead of on something you want to do don't count.

It looks easy? I make it look easy due to the reasons above, pay me!!!

My SO has come across many of those SC's, and if not, he would get the cheapskates and the ones that ring your phone off the hook to check on things with their computer/website/graphics, etc.

Quoth NotSoInnocent View Post

PC: So you do this stuff for free?
Me: Ummmm... No.

PC: I can't pay you, but you'll get good experience!
Me: Sorry... I have expenses that I need to be able to cover.

PC: But it doesn't cost you anything to do this. Why do I have to pay you???

---[SNIP]----

Yeah. It costs me absolutely nothing to do this job. Know what??? Go 'way now. My training and expertise do not come free. Cheap, maybe... but -not- free.

The training and materials you have sure as hell weren't free and why is it that SC's think or expect you to render services to them for free?!! We have bills to pay too! Cheap bastards.

Much success to your business, NSI!!

**Sarlon** · 07-19-2008, 06:08 AM

forgive my ignorance....but what exactly is a Doula? the impression I'm getting is its kinda like a mid-wife?

grats on the self-employement though ^_^

**NotSoInnocent** · 07-19-2008, 05:00 PM

Quoth Sarlon View Post

forgive my ignorance....but what exactly is a Doula? the impression I'm getting is its kinda like a mid-wife?

grats on the self-employement though ^_^

This -very- short definition of a Doula was given to me by a friend of mine.

"A Doula? Yeah... It's like a midwife without all the medical crap."

**TTAZ** · 07-19-2008, 05:20 PM

Quoth NotSoInnocent View Post

The Proud

PC: I want to have an epidural, and pain meds before that. And my doctor will induce me two weeks before my due date...
Me: (Wow... So why do you want a Doula?) Ok...
PC: My friends are going to be sooooo jealous that I get to have a Doula for my labor and they can't afford one.

*shudders* Seriously? I'm not a fashion accessory. Really... I'm not. Please go pay for a more expensive Doula that will bow to your every whim and chortle with glee when you introduce her to your "friends"... I'm just not that type of Doula. Kthanxbye.

Yeah, doulas are the newest trend in birthing accessories, especially in the high disposable income, faux-crunchy granola women. I think it's the word "doula". It just sounds so natural, and woman-centric, and green, and lovely, and lets not forget TRENDY. Half the twits that call you probably don't even know what a doula is. From my understanding, doulas are basically there to help a woman in labor make the best decisions for her during the labor and birth process, if you already know you're getting induced, and that you're getting all the drugs you can get, what decisions need to be made? $20 says the woman above is going to formula feed to avoid the hassle of messing her boobs up.

**NotSoInnocent** · 07-19-2008, 06:55 PM

Quoth TTAZ View Post

Yeah, doulas are the newest trend in birthing accessories, especially in the high disposable income, faux-crunchy granola women. I think it's the word "doula". It just sounds so natural, and woman-centric, and green, and lovely, and lets not forget TRENDY. Half the twits that call you probably don't even know what a doula is. From my understanding, doulas are basically there to help a woman in labor make the best decisions for her during the labor and birth process, if you already know you're getting induced, and that you're getting all the drugs you can get, what decisions need to be made? $20 says the woman above is going to formula feed to avoid the hassle of messing her boobs up.

That's exactly what a Doula does... and I wouldn't take that bet. She was about 4 1/2 months along, barely starting to show... and was wearing maternity clothes that probably cost more than my entire wardrobe. She was going on about how she's really into being healthy... and that she doesn't drive an SUV or a van because it's soooo bad for the environment... but she owns -two- Hummers. Yeah. That's not an SUV... apparently.

I'm willing to bet that she's going to end up with a C-section that she doesn't need... and she'll gripe at the doctor because he "ruined" her figure with a scar. *rolls eyes*

**TTAZ** · 07-20-2008, 08:21 AM

If she's already saying that she's going to be induced at 38 weeks, I'm assuming that means a c-section. I hope she realizes it's not the incision so much that causes the scar, but the staples they use are sure gonna mess with you!

She may try to breastfeed, but if for some reason baby doesn't latch right away, she'll go to formula without much of a fight. She'll likely justify it by using (more) expensive trendy organic formula guaranteed to give baby good eyesight, better brain development, an IQ of 160, psychic powers, the ability to fly and eat whatever they want without getting fat. Not to mention baby's shit won't stink and she'll be cleaning up her own spit-up so mommy doesn't have to!

**Bramblerose** · 07-20-2008, 05:11 PM

Quoth South Texan View Post

Oh jeez, I get that one all the time. Mine usually is along the lines of "You're supposed to want to help people. All you care about is money."

Worse, we BUY INTO IT. I was training to be a Youth Care Worker (the company took in kids who were too old to foster but still in system). Repeatedly during training we heard "If you want to make money, work at Braums" as if my time and skills are without worth to the company.

What does this say about the value of your clients???!!??!!

that.

Apparently because I build children, I am worth 75% of my husband who is trained to build chemical plants. Ok, I appreciate chemical plants that don't explode, but isn't more engineers important??

**Samaliel** · 07-21-2008, 12:18 PM

Quoth NotSoInnocent View Post

I'm a Doula (Woot! Birthing goodness ahead!) so I get to help pregnant and laboring women. All is wonderful!

congrats on being self-employed ! Hope your business goes well ! My best friend's girlfriend is really looking into becoming a doula, too.

But as to what TTAZ said, sadly it's true. While doulas can provide a whole bunch of very useful, sometimes priceless, advice, the "faux hippie" upper-class people tend to see them as a fashion accessory to the mother's to be pregnancy. Here in France, we call them "BoBo", for "Bourgeois Bohème". People who fancy themselves tree-hugging hippie artists and whatnots because it's "cool" when they're high-end corporate cogwheels that scribble some crap on their lunch breaks and drive some kind of gas-guzzling vehicles (only exceptions to that part : those who could afford and actually purchase some electric / hybrid vehicle, but still more to get "coolness" points rather than because of being environmentally conscious - but hey, whatever the reason : less carbon dioxide in the air makes me happy anyway).

Of course, the fact that doulas are getting popular again is in the same trend of organic / natural food, and things like that. Yes, if you follow their advice, you will surely have a better experience from your pregnancy than most, and the actual labor and delivery might a whole lot better too. But you have to friggin' listen to their input ! They're not here for you to display in front of your friends like they're some pet or some kind of jewelry, dang it !

And regarding Mrs. Proudness not driving SUV, she only owns the Hummers. That doesn't mean she drives them. But baby-to-be's Daddy surely does.

**JustADude** · 07-21-2008, 12:57 PM

Quoth Samaliel View Post

those who could afford and actually purchase some electric / hybrid vehicle, but still more to get "coolness" points rather than because of being environmentally conscious - but hey, whatever the reason : less carbon dioxide in the air makes me happy anyway).

Me, I want a hybrid vehicle not for clean air or "eco-cool" points, but because you it allows for greater power at the same level of fuel economy. Witness the Lexus hybrids that put out 340bhp, do 0-60mph in 5.2sec, and get 25mpg. That's nearly the same MPG as my little 4-banger, with nearly triple the power, and that (and the Tesla Roadster) is (are) how you sell the concept of a hybrid to the general public.

I just can't wait until they do a hybrid Ferrari. *wipes up drool*

**rus** · 07-21-2008, 01:19 PM

We didn't have a doula ourselves but had one who gave us a weekend training course with some other couples of what to expect during childbirth and just had time for us. That in itself was very very helpful but she mentioned that she sometimes spent the first week or two with new parents helping them settle in. Is that something all Doulas do? I remember for us it was a huge realization that you are holding this small baby and not 100% sure what to do or what is best and having a helping hand (in the form of a friend who had a 1 year old) was greatly appreciated

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