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**Imogene** · 07-11-2006, 04:18 AM

Oooh, just like all my customers who would get their credit card slip to sign, and scratch out all but the last four digits of the number. I eventually decided the next person whov did that to me was getting their card and slip run through the card copier, just to piss them off. It worked, she got horrified as I started to press the lever down. "What the hell are you doing?"
"Oh, since you just accused me of theft of your identity, I figured I'd make it look legitimately like I was doing so. Not to mention our computer already has a copy of your full number in it somewhere. If I were desperate enough to try to get your credit card number, you can bet I would be able to get it from there."
"You can't do that to my credit card!"
"Ma'am, I'm offended that you accused me of possibly stealing your cedit card number, when, at most, I'll see five numbers, and slip it into this little slot in the drawer, and forget about it. I've not stolen anything since I turned seven, and I'm offended that you're accusing me of doing just that. Your credit card slip is less than a blip on my monitor of recognition. You see?" *I slide her slip into the drawer and give her back her card*

Yes, I know I was being petulant, but I was having a crappy day at that point, not that that's an excuse.

**wagegoth** · 07-14-2006, 07:47 PM

Quoth Juwl

Oooh, just like all my customers who would get their credit card slip to sign, and scratch out all but the last four digits of the number.

Actually, the law (I don't know if it's federal or just state) does not allow the imprint of the full credit card number. The number is not allowed to appear in full on any receipt, including the merchant copy. And if it isn't federal, MasterCard and Visa do not allow it to cut down on identity theft.

While I agree that the customer was unacceptably rude and out of line, a lot of retailers are still not in compliance.

Also, here in California, it is illegal to write the driver's license number on a check. You can view the driver's license, and verify that you viewed it, but you are not to write it on the check. But, most small retailers will still write your number down on the check. Even some big companies do it. But I don't complain. I figure that's one of the least likely ways my identity will be appropriated.

**LemonZest** · 07-15-2006, 12:14 AM

Quoth wagegoth

Also, here in California, it is illegal to write the driver's license number on a check. You can view the driver's license, and verify that you viewed it, but you are not to write it on the check.

Can you cite something official on this? CA Statute number or something? I ask because I've been in retail for a very long time and I've never seen nor heard this applying to retailers in CA before.

If there is a law or state code, I'd prefer my store follow it...but I'd need to go in with actual proof....not saying you are incorrect but I don't think our owner would go for 'I saw it at Customer Sucks' as proof.

LZ

**theredbaron47** · 07-15-2006, 04:07 AM

Juwl, do you really think, if a customer scratches out all of part of their CC number on the merchant copy, that they are saying you personally will commit identity theft? Whenever I get people that do that to me, I've always thought it was just in general, so no one whose hands it passes through could commit identity theft.

**wagegoth** · 07-18-2006, 07:52 AM

Quoth theredbaron47

Juwl, do you really think, if a customer scratches out all of part of their CC number on the merchant copy, that they are saying you personally will commit identity theft? Whenever I get people that do that to me, I've always thought it was just in general, so no one whose hands it passes through could commit identity theft.

That's my feeling on it. Also, if someone does rob the store, they might get a chunk of cash, but anyone with a computer now has a good source of valid credit or debit card numbers to use if the entire number is on the receipt, at least for a few days.

**wagegoth** · 07-18-2006, 08:00 AM

California Codes

No more than the last 5 digits of a credit card number may be printed on electronic receipts. California Civil Code § 1747.09. Effective January 1, 2004.

Restricts certain uses and retention of data encoded on drivers' licenses. California Civil Code § 1798.90.1, SB 602, effective January 1, 2004. (This statute states a retailer may swipe a driver's license and that information can then be forwarded to a check approval firm but the retailer cannot retain that information.) This may be the statute it's based on, a kind of "better safe than sorry," but I do know that court clerks will view your license but will not write the information down, and the reason they give is that it is illegal under California law.

I will try to find out more tomorrow. Searching the California Codes online is a pain. I'll have to take a look tomorrow at work.

**Jester** · 07-18-2006, 08:05 AM

Okay, the whole scratching out the credit card number thing to me is funny. Now, I have only recently begun to see it, because until recently, I worked at places with modern credit card systems that would (a) only print the last four numbers on the receipt, and (b) retain the important information within the system itself, so short of writing down the cc # by hand when the card is in your hand, you can't steal cc #'s.

However, my bar has had, until our very recent (last week) upgrade, a much older cc system, one that I had not worked on in close to ten years. In any case, I started seeing people scratching out the cc #'s on their receipts every so often. And I had been told by the accountants that they had to have the cc #'s on the receipt, or they could not match stuff up. (I told you it was antiquated. Also, last summer's hurricanes did a number to a lot of systems in this very old building.) Anyway, no problem. My solution:

I run credit card. I give cc slip to patron. Patron fills out cc slip and signs it, and scratches out the cc # on slip. I take cc slip from patron, thank them for their business. After they leave, I go to antiquated cc machine, take 3 seconds to REPRINT their cc receipt (with all the #'s on it), staple it to the slip with the #'s scratched out, put it in my drawer, and forget about it, as I would have regardless. Man, oh man, these people just don't get it, do they?

**varmintjane** · 07-19-2006, 01:46 PM

Honestly

I have never taken it personally when someone scratched out the numbers on the store copy. It's stupid to have all of it there in the first place. Most places do just fine with the last four numbers of it. Besides, the store copy has the person's name and the amount they spent and the date, so why would you need more than that in the first place. My old bookstore used to do that and if someone scratched it out, I didn't care b/c I would do the same thing in that situation.

Juwl, if that customer had complained to a manager she would have been totally in the right. Unless the customer out right accuses you like the OP, there is no reason to "teach them a lesson" like that.

Jester, did you accountants mean they needed the whole number? Surely the last four numbers would be sufficient. Why not just reprint and scratch out the last four or ask them to leave the last four visible? They aren't idiots for doing it, for all they know the accountants could be dishonest or something. They'd be idiots if they let any old joe off the street have access to their CC numbers. They don't know you personally so why should they "trust" that you won't take it and book a vacation? It's not because you work in customer service that they don't trust you. They might not trust that the people who actually DO pay attention to the number will do the right thing.

**Imogene** · 07-19-2006, 08:49 PM

Quoth theredbaron47

Juwl, do you really think, if a customer scratches out all of part of their CC number on the merchant copy, that they are saying you personally will commit identity theft?

Well, seeing as the credit card slips in our store went through:
1) the employee's hand
2) a manager's hand
3) the bank
And, more often than not, I would take the place of the manager to count the credit slips at the end of the night, yeah, it went through my hands, and then the bank, and no one else, so I had had it most often in the store... it was more than likely I would be blamed for any theft of identity anyway.

**Imogene** · 07-19-2006, 08:51 PM

Quoth varmintjane

Juwl, if that customer had complained to a manager she would have been totally in the right. Unless the customer out right accuses you like the OP, there is no reason to "teach them a lesson" like that.

It wouldn't be the first time I'd done something that could've rightly gotten me fired if the customer complained. However, it was starting to piss me off that so many people were insinuating that I was going to commit identity theft. Not right to have done, I know, and, given the chance, I wouldn't try it again. However, it's been and gone. Years ago.

**varmintjane** · 07-19-2006, 10:05 PM

Because the customer totally knows that you are the only one in the store to handle it. Don't take it personally.

It will drive you nuts.

**LemonZest** · 07-20-2006, 07:10 AM

Quoth wagegoth

No more than the last 5 digits of a credit card number may be printed on electronic receipts. California Civil Code § 1747.09. Effective January 1, 2004.

OK, *electronic receipts*, ours has always only printed the last four on the receipt (of course it 'captures' the full number). At the times our phoneline goes down, taking the card capture with it, customers have the choice of allowing us to 'knucklebuster' imprint their card or use another form of payment. That's not an electronic receipt, we have to write these out by hand.

Quoth wagegoth

Restricts certain uses and retention of data encoded on drivers' licenses. California Civil Code § 1798.90.1, SB 602, effective January 1, 2004. (This statute states a retailer may swipe a driver's license and that information can then be forwarded to a check approval firm but the retailer cannot retain that information.) This may be the statute it's based on, a kind of "better safe than sorry," but I do know that court clerks will view your license but will not write the information down, and the reason they give is that it is illegal under California law.

We're not using the *encoded* data, just that which is visually available (unless I'm already suspicious, I'm just looking at the photo, if it's reasonably similar to their face, looking at the signature on the DL because of the huge number of people who refuse to sign the back of their credit cards despite it clearly saying NOT VALID IF NOT SIGNED).

On cheques, which we get few of other than for Rx (where we already have considerable information on file), No CA DL (or non-driver CA ID), no cheques accepted. Clearly posted. We do hand-record the DL# and expiry date, and verify the printed name and address against the ID.

Quoth wagegoth

I will try to find out more tomorrow. Searching the California Codes online is a pain. I'll have to take a look tomorrow at work.

It sure is, isn't it? And that right there is why I appreciate you looking at work...I've not a printed copy at hand. Thanks!

LZ

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