My computer should last FOREVER!

[Fandangoose]

However, it's not the oldest functional computer still in my possession. Somewhere, packed away in a box, is a Commodore VIC-20.

Upstairs, I have a Commodore 64C with 1541 (yes, the old clunky one) disk drive, and a Commodore 128 with two 1571 drives, along with a dot matrix printer I bought at Sears, and a Commodore monitor. The 64 is connected for the time being, only because the 1571 drives are currently screwed up. I love those old machines (guess I'm showing my age!).

[protege]

There are many British locomotives and even DMUs which were built in the 1950s, and are still perfectly usable today. Many were sent for scrap long before the end of their working life, in the name of "progress" - those that survive today were often bought from the scrapyard and then rebuilt.

The same thing happened in the US--during the 1950s, many nearly-new steam locomotives were scrapped...simply because they were expensive to run (i.e., labor intensive) compared to diesels. Now, the only steam engines still running...are in excursion service, or tourist lines. Many of the other survivors are parked in town squares or museums. If you really want to see something cool...go to Steamtown some time, and take the shop tour. I was there in September, and several of their steamers were being rebuilt. From the wheels up, that is!

Let's not forget about "planned obsolescence" either. Sometimes, companies *want* their products to get "outdated" so people will rush out and buy something new--look at 1950s American autos. The concept was so successful, that many people kept their vehicles only 2 or 3 years. Nobody wanted to be seen driving an "old" car. A shame, since many of those cars were solidly built

With all that said, I tend to use something...until it literally falls apart. And even then, I'll keep it going. Why else would one of my favorite shop vehicles be a beat-up 1959 Radio-Flyer wagon that I rescued from someone's trash? Well, that, and it's built better than the new ones. Not really much I had to do to it to make it "roadworthy." Other than putting air in the tires, and putting a new cotter pin into the steering, that is.

Then there's my MG. Truly my favorite sports car. It turns 40 in October, and MGs in general haven't come here since 1980. Even though it's "outdated," it still turns heads, and can occasionally humble idiots in Miatas. Oh, and I can get nearly everything I need for it...in 2 days time. Not so with the now-gone 8-year-old Mazda. Even little parts could take weeks!

[Rivulatus]

I've had my fair share of customers who expect to be able to get software for dinosaurs off the shelf. Still occassionally get people who have a W95 machine but no disks who want to buy a legit copy.

The local university right up until last year wouldn't allow computers to be connected to their network unless they were running Windows NT! This caused all manner of dramas when lecturers wanted to use things like scanners, drawing tablets etc which have USB connections. Last year they finally decided to allow Win2000, and are trialling WinXP. Of course all new computers now ship with Vista, and in many cases there are no Win2000 drivers for things like sound cards, video cards, network cards etc. Makes it tricky to supply a computer that will work in their environment. Also makes you wonder how up to date their education programs are!! The sucky thing about the Uni is that they expect the outdated stuff to still be available. They will put in a requisition for gear that hasn't been around for 5 years or more.

I have one client who takes the cake for old gear, but at least they are aware of the situation and are not sucky about it at all. They have software that was written specifically for their business that was originally designed to run on a multi-user variation of DOS using dumb terminals running on serial ports. Some time in the early '90s they needed to upgrade to more terminals, and since the OS supplier had gone out of business they couldn't do it. Instead we set up a 486DX2-66 with 16MB RAM (HUGE at the time) an EISA SCSI controller with dual mirrored 1GB Hard Drives (HUGE at the time), a SCSI tape drive for backup, running Linux (kernel 1.2.something I think), and a 32 port serial card. Each dumb terminal started a dosemu session on Linux which ran their program. To this day, that machine is still going running their business. Since it was set up, I've since added ethernet, so now in addition to the dumb terminals, they have a few real computers that telnet into it to run the same software. It now also does it's backups across the network to another computer overnight, rather than using the tapes. The thing works a treat. If it falls over I doubt I'd be able to get their dumb terminals working again (good luck finding a multi-port serial card for PCI slot), but everything else should be reasonably simple to get going. It's a dinosaur, but it does the job perfectly for them.

[Chromatix]

Well, the good news is that Britain is now one of the best places to find steam traffic and old diesels still working - sometimes on the main line, even.

It's one of the things that privatisation has allowed, because the owners of preserved machines now have equal access to the track with other train operators, so long as the vehicles and locomotives are certified safe for main-line running.

Funny thing: the limited technology available in the 1950s and 60s meant that the early diesels have very simple control circuits, and are therefore probably almost as immune to EMP damage as a steam locomotive. The newer diesels with induction motors and inverters might be more susceptible. Something nice to think about if the sun decides to send a big electromagnetic flare our way. The good news is that basic steam locomotives are both relatively easy to build with limited access to power tools...

[MrSmiley]

Just FYI... my "new computer" (1.1ghz) that's about 8 years old (and 3-5 years obselete depending on who you ask... I freely admit that as a gamer I really should have bought something better a couple of years back) has an LPT1 "big plug" printer port. I never thought much of it, but I guess there's been a big push towards USB and firewire over the past decade... I haven't looked up anything technical, but as far as getting devices to work in Windows or other operating systems, USB 2.0 seems to just do a better job than what was there before.

Oh... now that I look at my Dell Laptop (2001 ~ 800mhz) I see that it also has an LPT printer port on it.

[MrSmiley]

That's not the point. Obviously the computer in the OP is still working. The point is that at the rate that computer technology is advancing, it because obsolete years ago. Not non-functional, but obsolete. It's one thing to keep using an old microwave that still works, or a light fixture, but you can not reasonably expect any computer to remain relevant and supported for more than a few years.

I disagree completely. But I will acknowledge that the skills required, amount of effort put into it and frustration level of the user go up as "obsolete equipment" doesn't want to be supported by anybody. To put it another way: If you know what you're doing you can make old computers do hard work (actually knowing what it CAN'T do is probably most important). If you're a more basic user who depends on Circuit City & guides for everything... you'll be dependant on "current technology" for that will be where the reasonable cost support options are.

I have no problem making my own 486 chug along to perform a task I assign it... partially because it's MINE... but I'd shudder in fear if someone came to me saying "Can you get my pentium to connect to my iPod?" simply because I'd probably have to spend a lot of time (re-)learning their computer system, finding out what options are available, kicking it when it doesn't work...

Uh... what was my point? Oh yeah... expect to be laughed at with old gear... unless you can get it to the point where you amaze them instead

[protege]

It's one of the things that privatisation has allowed, because the owners of preserved machines now have equal access to the track with other train operators, so long as the vehicles and locomotives are certified safe for main-line running.

Here, they'd not only have to kiss-up to the railroads (many of whom see steam excursions as interfering with their freight hauling), but they'd have to take out a crapload (meaning several $million-worth) in liability insurance. Those two things alone have caused a drop in steam excursions. That's not to say you can't ride behind steam--the Strasburg RR (right across from the state museum) is one place you can!

But, there's one thing we're all forgetting--sooner or later that "outdated" equipment *will* break down, and it *will* be a pain to repair, and if you choose to repair it...parts and labor will probably be more than the thing is worth. There's also the "I just replaced the hard drive and power supply...what if something else goes?" factor. Sooner or later, said equipment just isn't worth fixing.

[Yfandes]

At work I still have a 486 with DOS 6.022 and a rather specialized card for collecting oceanograhic data that doesnt work with pentium or above (and needs an ISA slot). Its on a research vessel and working just fine

I was also able to help someone out with printer for an ooold gas chromatograph machine - they wanted either a dot-matrix printer (which I also have, but no ink ribons or feeder paper), or an HP4 laser

I have a lot of respect for people who keep their old stuff working - themselves being the operative word.

[PepperElf]

But, there's one thing we're all forgetting--sooner or later that "outdated" equipment *will* break down, and it *will* be a pain to repair, and if you choose to repair it...parts and labor will probably be more than the thing is worth.

Ironically, not computer related, but I worked on gear that was pretty much exactly like that: electronic test equipment. The general lifespan of the equipment was about 15 years, though I suspect if you treat it properly you could make it last longer...

However after 15 years, getting repair parts or replacements would be extremely hard to do. I had to look up some information on the oscilloscopes I was working on only to find out they'd stopped making them at least 2 years prior. (Though I did find a bunch on ebay just now, however most are in need of repair).

and that's just the tip of the iceberg... I've also worked with gear where the replacement parts simply didn't exist. And in a "make it happen" world they don't like hearing that answer, even when it's the truth.


Though... i'm not sure if there's any software out there for the OP's printer... but on ebay you might be able to find one of the outdated printer cables and maybe some way to hook up the new computer... but i kinda doubt she'll have an easy job of it

[Dave1982]

I disagree completely. But I will acknowledge that the skills required, amount of effort put into it and frustration level of the user go up as "obsolete equipment" doesn't want to be supported by anybody.

Uh... what was my point? Oh yeah... expect to be laughed at with old gear... unless you can get it to the point where you amaze them instead

I think you misunderstand me. I meant not supported by mainstream vendors. That is, you can't expect to be running a Windows 98 machine (purchased in 98) and walk into a store today and expect to find current anti-virus software that will work with your machine as-is. You'd have to upgrade the machine to XP, and probably upgrade the RAM as well at the very least. By the time you do that, you're probably more than halfway to the price of a new computer (albeit a crappy one).

Yes, you can upgrade many older PCs with newer hardware, but only to a point.

Anyway, I do agree with you that you can keep using older hardware productively. I wasn't denying that originally. I'm just saying that as the user of said hardware, you can't walk around thinking you have a "new" PC and then get mad when I (the store employee) don't have current software for you.

[MrSmiley]

Anyway, I do agree with you that you can keep using older hardware productively. I wasn't denying that originally. I'm just saying that as the user of said hardware, you can't walk around thinking you have a "new" PC and then get mad when I (the store employee) don't have current software for you.

Ah okay. Yeah that makes sense.

Even with the PCs I play games on... I tend to reach the "looks like I can't run anything on the store shelves" point sometime in it's life

[Mark Healey]

<SC> So what do I have to get to make my computer work with it?
<me> A new computer.
<SC> But mine still works!!!
<me> Yeah, but it's out of date. It would cost more to upgrade it than to get a new one.

That's not true. She could have gotten a USB card for the computer. I doubt the driver would work under 95, though. But then again, she could upgrade to Linux and even the printer would probably work.

[earl colby pottinger]

A point about Commodore Amiga 500s and C64s

I spent a lot of time repairing these machines. Have you looked inside an early model or either computers vs the later production models?

One of the first things you will notice is the number of filters and protection resistors in the early shipments. As time goes by you will find fewer and fewer protection steps taken as Commodore tried to make the machines cheaper ad they cleaned up the design. The C64 not only had better filters but also a better heat sink arrangement with a internal metal shield that in later models were replace with aluminumized cardboard or even nothing at all.

Once burnt-in the early machines from Commodore are far better at protecting themselves from environmental factors, notable static discharges and shorts to certain port pins.

Let's not mention the PanaSonic dot-matrix printers that use to have up to five fuses coming from the power supply so if a sub-assembly failed the low wattage fuse not only blew but pointed you to where the problem probably was. Later they replace the various 0.25, 0.5 and 1 amp fuses with a single 5-8 amp fuse, then when a sub-assembly failed the magic smoke would be let out and the printer would stop work. Sometime the big black burn marks told you where the problem was.

[protege]

and that's just the tip of the iceberg... I've also worked with gear where the replacement parts simply didn't exist. And in a "make it happen" world they don't like hearing that answer, even when it's the truth.

Just last weekend, I got to hear some idiot at the hobby shop...go off because he couldn't get parts for a 1970s Tyco diesel locomotive model. Those things were poor runners even when new, and what few parts were available...likely have been used up by now. Of course the in me nearly mentioned that he should still be *running a Tyco locomotive in 2008, but I kept my mouth shut until he left Seriously though, you can't get new parts for those--they quit making them in the early 1980s! The only answer, would be to find a similar locomotive, and rob it for parts. Unfortunately, you're not buying much time if you do that--the motors simply aren't made to last--meaning any potential "replacement" is a ticking time bomb. The best repair for these...is to replace all of the running gear. That is, find an Athearn frame that'll fit, mill down the edges, and drop the Tyco body onto it. It's a pain to do that, but at least the parts are widely available.

[Bliss]

My oldest working machines are right now an Apple IIci and a Sun Netra 440, they're both toy machines not work machines anymore... altough if I get a good programming lang and/or hypercard for the IIci I might use it on my electronics desk at home as a controller and loging machine