Fight night - Casino style

[Tuxian]

Well, figured this was the right place to tell these, since I wasn't directly involved in these incidents.

Friday night, there was an altercation in the high limit pit, when a player got into a shoving match with someone because they were standing too close behind the player. I don't know exact details, because I wasn't there.

Saturday night, we had an altercation on the same table in the high limit pit. This time, I was there for the aftermath, the fight having taken place just before I went on duty.

Apparently, the player on the first spot was playing in a way that the rest of the table didn't like (hitting 15s and 16s against dealer 5, 6, 7). Well, instead of going to another table, one player mouthed off, and told the guy he was stupid for playing like that. At which point the dealer interceded, and asked the man not to talk like that (players told me she said for the guy to "shut up", but I don't believe that). From there, things went downhill, and lead to punches being exchanged. One man was taken to a hospital, I believe.

I got on the table about this point, as things were cooling off. Dealer leaves, visibly upset. Woman who was I think the wife of one of the involved guys is pissed off at the pit boss, and then at the Security supervisor, who tried to get her to write a statement. She refused, since "It won't make a difference, you won't do anything about it!" And kept repeating over and over that the dealer was "rude".

Finally she left. Thank goodness. You know... if you're betting $50/hand on blackjack, generally you're assumed to be a mature human being. Guess not.

[Greenday]

Is it stupid to hit on a 15 or 16 when the deal has a 4 or 5 or 6? Probably. Is it that person's choice if they want to take that huge chance? Yes.

[ArenaBoy]

Rule #1: Don't talk about Fight Club.
Rule #2: You DO NOT talk about Fight Club.

This story is a prime reason why places like casinos need maturity tests. There are plenty of good reasons for it.

[karma_gypsy]

I got on the table about this point, as things were cooling off. Dealer leaves, visibly upset. Woman who was I think the wife of one of the involved guys is pissed off at the pit boss, and then at the Security supervisor, who tried to get her to write a statement. She refused, since "It won't make a difference, you won't do anything about it!" And kept repeating over and over that the dealer was "rude".

Dontya just hate having to walk in and be in the middle of a situation like that though? What a sucky way to start the day (and sucky way to end the day for the other dealer).

[BrassCowboy]

Tuxian, have the fighters been put on the "blacklist" similar to the one that cheaters are put on?

[Becks]

Rule #1: Don't talk about Fight Club.
Rule #2: You DO NOT talk about Fight Club.

Did you forget about rule #8?

[Tuxian]

Dontya just hate having to walk in and be in the middle of a situation like that though? What a sucky way to start the day (and sucky way to end the day for the other dealer).

Most definately, I walked into a table where all the people were already pissed, and then I proceeded to beat them every hand they played (all 5 of them). Then they left, thank goodness. But yeah, horrible start to the night.

Tuxian, have the fighters been put on the "blacklist" similar to the one that cheaters are put on?

I would imagine so, but as I'm not involved in that in any way, I wouldn't know.

[Melxb]

Is it stupid to hit on a 15 or 16 when the deal has a 4 or 5 or 6? Probably. Is it that person's choice if they want to take that huge chance? Yes.

Yes, it is that person's choice to hit on a dealer 4, or 5, or 6. I agree, BUT in a situation like that, I would be pissed if a dumb/drunk player constantly hits when a dealer is showing one of those cards. Basic strategy is that you let the dealer bust by letting the house pick up the (theoretically) large card (either a 10 or a face card) and the rest of the table, no matter what crappy hand everyone may have, wins!

I'd have just gotten up from a table like that if another player didn't know how to play against a dealer showing those kinds of hands or was intentionally f*****g with how the table collectively is playing. I have before. No need for punches to be thrown.

[Tuxian]

Yes, it is that person's choice to hit on a dealer 4, or 5, or 6. I agree, BUT in a situation like that, I would be pissed if a dumb/drunk player constantly hits when a dealer is showing one of those cards. Basic strategy is that you let the dealer bust by letting the house pick up the (theoretically) large card (either a 10 or a face card) and the rest of the table, no matter what crappy hand everyone may have, wins!

I'd have just gotten up from a table like that if another player didn't know how to play against a dealer showing those kinds of hands or was intentionally f*****g with how the table collectively is playing. I have before. No need for punches to be thrown.

That's just it, though, Mel. From the report I heard when I asked the Security guy the next night, the guy who was playing 'badly' wasn't drinking. He plays like the dealer does. He wasn't playing stupid because of liquer, he was playing that way because that's how he always plays.

Side note to this, and Horsetuna will probably back me up on this: In my experience, one of the FUNNIEST things that can happen from the dealer's perspectve is when there is a mix of the two kinds of BJ players. One kind wants to beat the dealer's hand, and will usually hit 15s and 16s. The other kind want the dealer to bust, and won't hit a 16 no matter what. When you have a split on the table, half and half of each kind, they spend so much time arguing it's hard not to burst out laughing when you beat them hand after hand after hand.

[Horsetuna]

I've havent had real arguments that were funny over that, but it sure SOUNDS funny.

Normally they just get grumpy either at me/The other player being 'stupid'. Sometimes' its funny but mostly I get a little irritated, specially if they lose OMG five DOLLARs.

I know I would be hitting my 15s and 16s against dealer bust cards, and staying on 15s against face cards (My logic is any low cards that help my 15 would break up a dealer's 20, and vice versa), but I wouldnt' do that at a table with other players.

Speaking of which I should post about tonights' customers.

[trunks2k]

Is it stupid to hit on a 15 or 16 when the deal has a 4 or 5 or 6? Probably. Is it that person's choice if they want to take that huge chance? Yes.

Yes. 15 and 16 are the worst hands you can have, 14 isn't very good either. Because you haven't reaced 17 yet, and there are few cards that will keep you 21 and under so your chances of busting if you hit are very very high.

Often players will assume that the dealer has a 10 underneath the visible card. So if the dealer is showing a 6,5, or 4 they assume that the dealer has 16,15, or 14 respectively. With those cards, the dealer is almost definately going to have to hit again (except in the case of a 6 and Ace, which makes 17, but whether or not the dealer hits on that is a house rule thing) on a hand that has a higher than normal chance of busting. So the player stays, assuming the dealer is going to bust. Normally people will only hit on 15 or 16 if the dealer is showing a 7 or higher, because it's assumed the dealer has at least 17.

Alot of people, if they have anything over 11 and the dealer is showing a 6 or 5, will just stay and assum the dealer will bust. A bit of a helpful tip - if you have between a 7 and 11 (inclusive) and the dealer is showing a 6 or 5, a common tactic is to double down, b/c your hand can only get better and the dealer has a good chance of busting. And always double down on 11, unless the dealer is showing an ace.

Why the other people cared how the other player was playing is beyond me. I can understand the "That was dumb" sort of comment, but to really fight over it?

[trunks2k]

Yes, it is that person's choice to hit on a dealer 4, or 5, or 6. I agree, BUT in a situation like that, I would be pissed if a dumb/drunk player constantly hits when a dealer is showing one of those cards. Basic strategy is that you let the dealer bust by letting the house pick up the (theoretically) large card (either a 10 or a face card) and the rest of the table, no matter what crappy hand everyone may have, wins!

But it doesn't matter what the other players do, you are playing against the dealer the other players don't matter to you no matter how good or bad they are playing. Assuming that every turn of the card the chances of getting any individual card is the same as it was last time, whether or not the player busts is irrelevent. The only argument you could have is that if the player is dealt a 10 and busts, and then the dealer goes and pulls a low enough card to keep from busting. Then the 10 "should have" been for the dealer and the dealer "should have" bust. But thinking like that is silly, it could just have easily gone the other way with the player getting the low card causing the dealer to get a card to bust.

So why get angry at another player for playing poorly when they really have no effect on YOUR outcome?

[Horsetuna]

And always double down on 11, unless the dealer is showing an ace.

Actually I would think an ace is a good double down against. If I get a blackjack, then you only lose the ORIGNAL bet, not the double (so if you bet five, you double for another five, I get BJ, you only lose 5 dollars).

Then again, its such a wild card that if I still beat your hand you could lose both...

[Tria]

Rule #1: Don't talk about Fight Club.
Rule #2: You DO NOT talk about Fight Club.

This story is a prime reason why places like casinos need maturity tests. There are plenty of good reasons for it.

Rule 3: If this is your first night at Fight Club, you have to fight.

[Mr. Rude]

20....Hit me!.....21....Hit me!!......28......Hit me!.....Sir you loose

Doh!