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  • My first client... burned

    Started a freelance website and graphic design company a few months ago, and got my first client quickly. Yay right?

    Well they turned into huge EWs, but that's fine, I chalked it up to lack of computer knowledge and not understanding how these things worked. I told them I should have the website designed by the middle of January. It was only 10 pages, but involved some flash work, logo designs, writing up descriptions etc. It was a fair amount of work, and I'm a student at the same time.

    January 15th I had it up, right on time. Over the next week and a half we went back and forth on some minor changes. Type-os, phone number changes, a space missing. I think all in all less than a dozen things were changed. The whole time things were good.. or so I thought.

    The site was finalized on the 27th, but there was a small issue with the business cards (I sent them an Adobe file for a test print, foolish me). I told her I couldn't meet until Monday for payment, and asked what the issue with the cards where.

    Nothing. Nothing. Nothing.

    Then tonight I get an email that they're "going in the a different direction." No explanation (and wouldn't give one when I asked) as to why.

    But, here's the kicker. They asked if they got the NON-REFUNDABLE retaining fee back! Yea, I'm not a total greenhorn and asked for 10% up front as a retaining fee, and that it would be taken off the final price when that came. So at least I'm not entirely out.

    I took down the test site, and will be doing checks for the stuff I've done online just in case, because this is what it really seems like. People tend to REALLY undervalue computer work, and I know web page theft is a real issue. I feel like an idiot for the business cards now, but I sent a strongly (but politely) worded email back ensuring that she remembers that all materials produced are copyright to {business}, including the cards, logos and code as per our contract.

    I knew this would probably happen at some point over the course of my work, but my first one? I'm ready to quit this whole racket already

    And as I write this she's trying to quibble over what is copyright and what isn't. Thank GOD I had the foresight to lay this all out at the beginning.

  • #2
    Can you sue her? Not sure if it's worth the hassle in the long run, but you had a contact and she stepped out without paying. That, and I'm vindictive
    A lion however, will only devour your corpse, whereas an SC is not sated until they have destroyed your soul. (Quote per infinitemonkies)

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    • #3
      Title 17, USC governs the status of copyright in the USA. This closely follows the requirements laid out by the Berne Convention.

      To summarize: Any idea that is expressed in a fixed form is subject to copyright. This includes text, graphics, computer files (of any number of varieties), videos, you name it. Furthermore, any idea, once expressed in a fixed form, is automatically protected by copyright, and is copyright the author. Should copyright violations be found, the penalties can be rather steep (Title 17 allows for up to $150,000 per violation).

      Now, you've blown things very slightly. You have asserted a copyright claim. If the client decides to play games, they could file with copyright.gov and make you go through the hassle of reclaiming your own work. As a result, your next step is very very simple: Do not wait even 60 seconds. Go file your copyright claim immediately (assuming you are in the USA).

      Once you have the proof of filing, send your client a certified letter with a copy of the copyright statement, informing said client that the copyright to all works is owned by your company, and that you will be looking for copyright violations on the web from now on.

      Now, to really put the screws to the client, wait until they come back and ask how they can use it (and the question will be asked, make no mistake, but they'll be a bit more subtle). At that point, offer to transfer the copyrights to them for a mere 150% of the original quoted price for the work.

      Oh, and in future? All projects are to be done on a billable time basis, with payment received on a regular basis during the course of the project. That's the only way to keep them from screwing you over in the end, unfortunately.

      And, for what it's worth, I'm sorry you have to go through this. It sucks when it happens.

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      • #4
        Oh, and I forgot something: Don't forget to tell them that you also own the copyrights on any derivative works, so they probably shouldn't try to get cute with just changing a few things here and there to allow themselves to use the work you've produced.

        Comment


        • #5
          I live in Canada, so things work slightly differently I believe. From what I understand this falls under the automatic protection side of the law.

          I did screw myself for not dividing this up more, and that's a lesson I've learned hard. I'm not sure I have any legal recourse, and either way it's under $600 she'd owe me.

          Oh it is so tempting to be vindictive though, especially after the week I've had. I will keep to being slightly obsessive about checking the web for signs of violation though.

          I don't think she realized that she'd be left with nothing however, so I feel a bit of joy in that. Sucks to be her if she thinks she'll find someone willing to do as much as quickly as I did, and be as understanding of their complete lack of knowledge of computers.

          Thanks for letting me vent a bit! I haven't had to deal much with customers since going back to school, I think I've lost my desensitation. Yea, that's totally a word.

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          • #6
            Quoth Nimisha View Post
            I live in Canada, so things work slightly differently I believe. From what I understand this falls under the automatic protection side of the law.
            Okay, but you still can claim copyright internationally such as in the US if they re-host it on a host based in the US (like most are) and you can issue a DMCA notice. I did that once when someone copied the terms of service from one of my sites and put it on his, not even editing out my company name.
            Otaku

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            • #7
              Quoth prb View Post
              Okay, but you still can claim copyright internationally such as in the US if they re-host it on a host based in the US (like most are) and you can issue a DMCA notice. I did that once when someone copied the terms of service from one of my sites and put it on his, not even editing out my company name.
              Good to know! Thanks!

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              • #8
                Maybe I shouldn't say this, or maybe I should, but you should really check out Clientcopia. It's all about situations like yours.

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                • #9
                  yeah, this is why for anything over a hundred dollars I'm asking for half up front. I can afford to lose a few hours- I'd've spent it here or playing games. More than that, hell no.

                  As far as copyright goes, I believe it is 'moment of creation' here in the US as well; trademark is the one that you have to actually go out defending. But I'm not a lawyer- though I'm looking for an IP lawyer these days if you guys know any good/cheap ones. (Not for myself, but a friend of mine. And I figure it's good to have one I can contact).
                  "Joi's CEO is about as sneaky and subtle as a two year old on crack driving an air craft carrier down Broadway." - Broomjockey

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                  • #10
                    Some tips for you if you want to continue this:

                    Ask for more up front. Some people do 50-50 or 30-30-30. 50 upfront and 50 on completion. 30 upfront, 30 at some interval in the middle and 30 on completion. Figure out what works for you, but 10% doesn't cut it if you do all the work and they don't pay you.

                    If it's a website. Do not transfer ownership to them until payment is complete. As in: GoDaddy.com is the host. You pay godaddy and then they pay you. When they pay you, transfer it to their name.

                    For a business card. Don't send them the original file, send a low-quality jpg so they can't use it if they don't pay.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Copyright is in effect once the material is published. Keep an online portfolio, update regularly, and you're fine; you'll hold the copyrights. Registering your copyright within six months of publication allows you to include any legal expenses incurred when suing someone for a copyright violation. Believe me, I know - I've been around tons of art sites that discuss copyright all the time. Unfortunately, in art and in web design, people really think they can get work for nothing.

                      If nothing else, just talk to a lawyer about getting some simple C&D letters if you're that concerned. Sending those out lets the other party know you mean business, and most will back down. Be ready to defend your claim if you send them out, though.

                      Keep those contracts on file, too. If you do wind up in a courtroom over a project that went like that, you'll have evidence that they ripped you off.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Quoth Can I Help Your A$$? View Post
                        Maybe I shouldn't say this, or maybe I should, but you should really check out Clientcopia. It's all about situations like yours.
                        Don't know why you'd say shouldn't, unless you're trying to not discourage the OP

                        I remember when that site was linked in Check It Out. I tried reading it all, but it just made me shake my head at it. The tales there are as bad as anything we get here. Just in pithier, shorter formats. I really liked the mini-argument that went on at one point between posts.
                        Ba'al: I'm a god. Gods are all-knowing.

                        http://unrelatedcaptions.com/45147

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I second the recommendation to not send print-qality copies of any graphic work you do until you've been paid for it. When I do commissions over the internet, I make sure the client doesn't receive anything better than a low-res .jpg with a big ol' watermark on it until I receive payment. Then they can have their shiny high-res version. They could still try to print the low-res and rip me off, but their print-out would look like crap.

                          Same goes for most of the art I post on my DeviantArt and personal website. It's low-res enough that people aren't going to get very good prints out of it (hopefully), if they do try to steal my art.
                          "Enough expository banter. It's time we fight like men. And ladies. And ladies who dress like men. For Gilgamesh...IT'S MORPHING TIME!"
                          - Gilgamesh, Final Fantasy V

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                          • #14
                            As I have the worst client around (but keep him as he helps me create policies to prevent getting screwed), follow the tips the others say, but I'd have a few similar/repeats/others:


                            1) If the website is on your hosting plan/servers until it's paid in full -- try to make things require php to work (so if they copy/paste the website, they lose a lot of functioning). If it's on their servers from the start -- continue with #2

                            2) as for a up-front payment (25-50% of the total cost -- whatever makes it worthwile if they skip out) before anything's done -- then have "payment plans" where they pay just a little more of the bill as work's done. You can say "it's easier on you, don't have to pay all at once!" but it's really "this is so the jerks don't try and not pay me" so you end up getting paid as work's done without any real loss. If they skip out on paying, you're not out much. I've charged 50% up front -- then took 10% over the next 5 months.

                            3) anything you do give them (like they're going to use) that's just to preview -- either give a low quality (jpg with 10% of the original quality) or a watermarked full-quality preview. No one will (generally) have a business card that has "review copy" with your business url on it (if they use it -- they'll be advertising for you) -- and you can easily give multiple preview versions so they can see what's underneath your watermark, or for that matter have the watermark have your contact info so it's not like you're implying they're going to steal it - but you're just making sure they know who to contact if there's a problem.


                            For #2, I actually charge, up front, the actual cost that the website will cost me in a "break even" amount -- what's left over (the remaining 50-75%) is what's profit to pay me.

                            I assume all simple websites will take 100 hours and multiply that by $8.50/hr (about min. wage -- so $850). I'll charge $200-250 upfront. That's 23-29 hours of work, which is the actual amount I'd estimate it'd actually take before they'd make the next payment or just for the entire thing to be done.
                            Last edited by JLRodgers; 02-03-2009, 04:33 AM.

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                            • #15
                              Thanks all!

                              I'm in the clear legally, but will certainly be revamping my payment schedule! Live and learn!

                              Luckily my province offers free business help for "youth" (under 29 years old! Sweeeet). This would include a lawyer if she does try and steal my work.

                              The business card thing was semi-dumb, but I made it clear that I was doing that as a favor and that they weren't covered by the retaining fee so I'm good there too. I'm going to try not to let this affect my sunny disposition, I know most clients won't be like this

                              My sister's fiance did a lot of web design work through university, so he had some good stories for me.

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