How hard is it to open your backpack?

[fireheart]

OK, before we start, I am not here to debate on whether bag checking is necessary or even legal.

For me, my general rule of thumb goes that I check backpacks, boxes, prams, trolleys and any bags from outside my store automatically. Handbags are a grey area.

Anyway...these guys came in about a week ago. They had fluro pink hair (important-you'll see why in a minute) and one had a backpack which I asked to check. He refused and walked out the door. Because there was no security warnings, I couldn't well call a Code 5 for it.

Fast-forward to tonight. I'm serving when all of a sudden I see pink-haired guy hanging around with a friend. Hasn't bothered to change his hair...did you think I would NOT remember you? Almost immediately, I pass the tipoff to SM, who starts to work on the prowl. Goes through ANOTHER checkout-not mine. This time SM stops him. Asks to check bag. Guy refuses yet again, so this time, he's now banned!

A reminder-I'm Australian and the law is a little different, but essentially because it is private property, and if customers do breach our code, we can tell them to leave and not return.

[Auto]

In the US, you can keep customers from carrying bags and cases into the store, but that's about it.

Once they're in the store or after they've left, you can't search them. You can detain them while you wait for the police. But then you better hope you've got grounds to press charges.

And if you improperly detained them, you can count on the store getting a call from their lawyer regarding the financial settlement you're going to be making them.

That's fair.

I don't want store employees deciding who merits being detained and searched especially if the reasons reflect obvious prejudice. We don't allow the cops to use that sort of profiling. I'll be damned if while I'm quietly minding my own business some store employee walks up and demands I let him snoop through my personal belongings just because he doesn't like how I look.

Personally, I'd be quicker to ban certain customers. Scammers, for instance. The first time I caught someone working a scam (phony returns, change-for-a-$20 scammers) as well as anyone abusing employees, I'd tell them they were no longer welcome to shop in my store. If they come back into my store, I'm calling the cops on them for trespass.

Of course, enforcing the policy would be difficult since most managers prefer to look the other way.

[fireheart]

Well I did do a follow-up on the laws behind bag checking. It is not illegal, but for many retail establishments it's one of the few non-threatening ways they can use loss prevention (i.e. not having uniformed security guards at every store). As far as I know, this is how it goes...

-Stores need to have a sign stating "It is a condition of entry that all bags are presented for inspection upon request as you leave the store." Usually a variant is that the bags have to be A4 size as well. We use that as a general rule of thumb rather than the "if you can fit a loaf of bread in it" rule. This needs to be up to ensure a bag check.

-We cannot touch the bags. Customer needs to do it. we CAN ask that they move aside cardigans, jumpers etc.

-We are not to detain them on grounds of shoplifting, hence why we do it while we're serving.

-We cannot outright accuse them of shoplifting, if we see something, we usually are meant to inform a sup. Some people however, will just add it to the shopping until the customer admits they don't want it (things like 20 packs of razorblades however...) We're also meant to use our own discretion when checking hair and makeup products.

-If they refuse bag check, management has the right to ban them at their own discretion.

[ottid]

Yea, I think the rules are very similar in NZ

I haven't had the problem before, even when I've entered with quite a large bag. This bag tended to hae all of my school books etc in it and I generally never took it off, and could therefore put nothing in it. If I'm in a clothing store trying clothes on with a largish bag, well a bag I could fit the clothing in, I tend to leave it just outside the change room curtain, so I can still see it and so can the staff. Not sure what I would do if it was an actual door though...

But good on the SM for banning customer

[dianek93]

I never have a problem with stores or such checking my bags. If I know a place will want to check my purse, I have it open before I get to them. Of course, I'm not a thief so why would I care if they peek at the mess I call my purse (or backpack)?

One thing I *can't* stand is when places ask that I put my bag behind their counter or somewhere else where it will not always be in my sight. School bookstores and this one shoe store near my house are the one's I always get that. The employees could be thieves too, just give me a bag search! (The stores have signs stating that the bags are to be left behind counters and such.)

[Pedersen]

Of course, I'm not a thief so why would I care if they peek at the mess I call my purse (or backpack)?

Maybe you're embarrassed by the mess that is inside your purse? Maybe you're someone who has to carry things you're embarrassed by (for instance, some women could be embarrassed by having a need to carry tampons)? Maybe you carry self defense items that would have security raising a few eyebrows and wish to avoid the hassle (for instance, if you have a concealed carry permit, you could have a gun in your purse)? Maybe you don't like the accusation that you're a thief that comes along with "Show me the contents of your bag"? Maybe you're just a private person who doesn't want to show random strangers whatever stuff she's carrying around?

There's plenty of valid reasons to refuse to show someone the contents of your bag that are not "I'm a thief and therefore don't want to get caught." Please don't support the idea that that is the only reason to refuse a bag check. It just gives people unnecessary grief.

Stores can demand to be allowed to check bags. They can even ban people who refuse to allow searches. All of that is fine. They just need to put up a sign that I can read either before I enter or as I enter. I'll vote with my feet by shopping elsewhere.

[Mordecai]

Maybe you carry self defense items that would have security raising a few eyebrows and wish to avoid the hassle (for instance, if you have a concealed carry permit, you could have a gun in your purse)?

This actually seems to me like a legit reason for a store to check bags. Personally, I don't feel comfortable shopping with other customers carrying guns, permit or not. Also, I believe there are restrictions on concealed weapons in certain areas, including private businesses. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Rapscallion]

As an NRA member, I'd feel compelled to argue the reverse, but I fear it would move this whole thread closer to fratching territory.

So, instead I'll simply advocate to not judge people based on whether or not they carry a weapon, but instead judge a person on what they DO with a weapon.

Too late. Too late by far.

Fratching is not a 'get out of trouble for whatever I say' card. It's for you to burn off those excess arguments where it doesn't pollute this board.

Anyone goes any further down this line, we break out the unhappy stick, delete posts, and close threads.

Rapscallion

[KellyHabersham]

The only time I have a problem with this sort of thing is when the employee is sucky about checking bags - the Fry's near my apartment used to have a door greeter who was kind of abrupt about checking receipts if the alarm went off, and he almost made you feel like it was your fault if you'd bought something from another store, and THAT was what had set the alarm off. (this guy wasn't outright sucky or anything, but I tried to avoid going there when I knew he'd be working)

[Cat]

I miss my bright pink hair

[Andara Bledin]

I don't give bag-checkers any grief because I know that they don't have any say in whether they check bags or not; that's up to management/corporate. Honestly, the doorway of a random retail establishment really isn't the place to make a stand for personal privacy.

One thing I *can't* stand is when places ask that I put my bag behind their counter or somewhere else where it will not always be in my sight. School bookstores and this one shoe store near my house are the one's I always get that. The employees could be thieves too, just give me a bag search! (The stores have signs stating that the bags are to be left behind counters and such.)

Well, if you know that they always do that, then why not leave the purse in the car, and just carry what you need to do your shopping?

I only carry a wallet, myself, because I don't want to hassle with places that check bags. That, and if I had a purse, I'd not only load it to the gills with crap, but then I'd leave it every other place I went, too.

This actually seems to me like a legit reason for a store to check bags. Personally, I don't feel comfortable shopping with other customers carrying guns, permit or not. Also, I believe there are restrictions on concealed weapons in certain areas, including private businesses. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Generally speaking, I think I'd rather have law-abiding people around me be armed as opposed to, say, only the law-breakers being the armed ones, and all that.

^-.-^

[Ree]

Generally speaking, I think I'd rather have law-abiding people around me be armed as opposed to, say, only the law-breakers being the armed ones, and all that.

I think Raps already covered any further discussion of carrying firearms.

Move on. More posts touching on that area will be deleted without notice and infractions may be issued.

[fireheart]

Sorry Ree, but I should add something here as well to further prevent anything else happening:

1) There is no such thing as "Carry Concealed Weapon" permits in Australia. If you have a gun, you're either a criminal, someone who uses a gun for sport or hunting (not for protection, it's illegal), or work in law enforcement.
2) We tend to use discretion when checking bags. Most women I see these days usually carry tampons inside a box or container that at first glance, you couldn't tell if it was carrying tampons. We just give a quick glance and leave it at that.
3) We're required to check all bags over A4 as I've been told now, more as a "the minority screws up, the majority get punished" ruling as a few cases have managed to walk free because they can prove that they were "discriminated" against. (their bag was checked, not the customers prior to them)
4) Finally, if we DO encounter items that we sell, we call down a sup who will either hold it while the customer pokes around for a docket, or we'll give them the benefit of the doubt. Anything deli, meat, seafood or produce however, gets held immediately...

[Nyoibo]

Smaller stores around will sometimes hold bags at Customer Service, t least they used to, when I used to work at K-mart people would open up their bags for me to check before I even asked, they had no problem with it, even had a few women with purses not much bigger than my wallet ask if I wanted to check them.

I did see some interesting things in some of those bags though.

[PepperElf]

-We cannot touch the bags. Customer needs to do it. we CAN ask that they move aside cardigans, jumpers etc.

That was one of the gripes I had in the navy when they did bad searches.

I snapped at one of the guys when he started reaching into my bag. Cos ... yeah, they had the legal right to search but not the right to shove their paws into it. And that was something the ship had specifically said too... "don't reach your hands inside, have the person move their own stuff"

it was better when I was on my last ship - we had a scanner. Only trouble is trying to stop the guys from scanning film. some of them weren't too bright on that one.