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  • C A N Apostrophe T

    We manufacture and sell two software products that do the same thing: Product1 and Product2. We acquired the rights to Product2 when we merged with another company in 1999. Even though sales of Product2 are a single-digit percentage of sales for Product1, it's still better for us to sell it than not to.

    One component of Product2 is licensed from another company, BIGCompany. We pay them a per-copy royalty, with an annual minimum far above what we actually sell. We also must send quarterly reports of sales to them.

    To us it's a huge hassle and expense but not enough to stop selling Product2.

    To BIGCompany it's also a hassle processing all that paperwork to get what is, to them, pretty much chump change.

    But those are the terms. The negotiations were pretty much "take it or leave it" and so we took it.

    Two months ago the contract expired. We had been aware of this a month ahead of time and notified our contact at BIGCompany that we'd like to renew the contract.

    No answer.

    Did this a few more times.

    Still no answer.

    The contract expired and we had to stop selling new licenses for Product2 because we no longer had rights to the licensed component. And because we hadn't heard a peep from them, we had no idea if this was temporary or permanent.

    This led to a lot of suck...

    I'm Too Special for a Group Notice

    Me: I'm sorry but we can't fill your order for Product2.

    SC: Why not?

    Me: [explains all of the above] We can hold onto your order and ship it when and if Product2 is available again. You could substitute Product1 for Product2. Or we can cancel your order. It's up to you.

    SC: Do you know when Product2 will be available again?

    Me: As I explained we haven't heard a peep from the copyright owner from whom we license [component]. We don't know when, or even *if,* they will renew the contract. I wish I could tell you more but I can't. You know as much as I do at this point.

    SC: Just notify me when Product2 is shipping again and I'll decide whether I want to buy it then.

    Me: OK. So I'll cancel the order and then sign you up for our email notification list so you'll be notified when Product2 is available again. I'll just need your email address.

    SC: No! I don't want to give that out or be on any list!

    Me: That's fine. Just check our web site or call us periodically to find out if Product2 is available.

    SC: Can't you notify me?

    Me: The only way we plan to notify people is on our email list, if they wish to be notified. But if you don't cancel the order we'll send you an individual notice with your tracking number when the product ships.

    SC: NO! I want you to cancel the order and call me or send me an email when Product2 is available so I can decide if I want to buy it then.

    [Wait, what? You just said you don't want to be on an email list, but you'd be OK with an individual email. Which would be identical to the email sent to everyone else in your circumstance? And how would I remember to send it to you and everyone else? I'd write your email address down on a LIST of people who are getting this specific email notice. Yup. That's completely different. NOT!]

    Me: So you want to be on the email notice list then?

    SC: NO! I want you to email me when it's ready.

    [OK. Let's drop that. Logic won't work here.]

    Me: I'm afraid the only options are the ones I've given you.

    SC: [whine] So what am I supposed to do?

    Me: [fine, I'll play] If you're asking my advice, it sounds like you don't want to be on our email list, so that's not a good option for you. You don't want to keep Product2 on backorder because you're not sure you'll still want it when it's ready to ship. And since you haven't mentioned it at all, I doubt you want to substitute Product1 for Product2. Am I correct about that?

    SC: Yes.

    Me: Then I recommend that you check our web site or call us every few weeks to see if there is a change in the status of Product2.

    SC: [in the most put-upon martyred voice] I guess I'll do *that* then.

    [Geez. If you deliberately choose the more difficult option, don't expect me to feel sorry for you.]

    Me: [cheerfully] Sounds like a good plan. Is there anything else I can help you with today?

    SC: [Eeyore] I guess not.

    It's a Vast Conspiracy!

    Me: The price for Product2 is [price]. But, unfortunately, we are putting orders for it on indefinite hold due to [explanation].

    SC: So you're not going to sell it any more?

    Me: While we certainly hope to, we can't say one way or the other for certain.

    SC: Can't you sell it without [component]?

    Me: Without [component] Product2 won't work.

    SC: Can't you sell it to me anyway? I wouldn't tattle on you.

    [You're asking a software manufacturer to violate someone's copyright? Even if we were total hypocritical sleazebags who would do something like that, there's that pesky factor of the penalties we'd pay for getting caught. They are enough to put us out of business. So FUCK NO is the only answer.]

    Me: I'm afraid that's not possible.

    SC: Oh, come on. I need Product2 for my students. It's an emergency!

    [I can't say what we make, but I assure you it's nothing to do with saving lives. So NOT really an emergency.]

    Me: Product1 does the same thing as Product2. If you're in a hurry to create [output] for your students, that's something you could buy right now.

    SC: Product1?!!! I KNEW you bought the rights to Product2 so you could kill it.

    [Ugh. I thought we were past that conspiracy shit by now.]

    Me: I assure you I'm telling the truth. We've owned the right to Product 2 for almost 11 years and wouldn't have continued to invest in developing, supporting and selling it for all that time if we had plans to discontinue it.

    SC: Forget it! I thought you guys cared, but I guess you don't.

    [click]

    [Some sense of urgency there, pal. You didn't even stick around to find out how to get Product2 ASAP if it ever ships again.]

    Yes. Really! It's a Conspiracy, I Tell you!

    We got a purchase order from a school. They had an old version of Product1 but hired a new employee who was more familiar with Product2. The school was willing to pay twice as much to buy Product2 rather than update Product1. That's fair enough and we would have been happy to ship Product2 to them. But we couldn't. So co-worker Eugene called them to find out how they wanted us to handle it.

    He got the purchasing office who put him through to the teacher since it was her call.

    The call went back and forth with the explaining things. Then it went along the lines of the second story. She asked him to sell it to her, promised she wouldn't tell anyone, then pulled out the emergency card.

    But instead of whipping out crazy conspiracy theories and hanging up when Product1 was suggested to her she launched into a slightly different tirade...

    SC: Product1! I HATE Product1! I can't use it.

    Eugene: Is there a specific reason?

    SC: It doesn't do Task A!

    Eugene: Actually it does do Task A [explains Task A]

    SC: But it doesn't do Task B!

    Eugene: It's done task B since 2004 [explains].

    This went on in similar fashion for a while.

    Eugene: So I guess what it comes down to is your personal preference. So do you want to indefinitely backorder Product2 for [2x price] or buy Product1 now for [1x price]?

    SC: I really need Product2 now. Are you sure you won't sell it to me?

    Eugene: Yes. I simply can't sell it to you.

    SC: Can't? Or won't?

    Eugene: Can't.

    SC: [pretending to be kidding] Oh, come on. Don't tell me you can't! You could if you really wanted to.

    Eugene: [pretending to be kidding back] I suppose I could...

    SC: [giggles] Aha!

    Eugene: ...but if I did my boss would probably fire me...

    SC: [still giggling] No he wouldn't!

    Eugene: Well probably not, but seriously, I still have to do what he says. He is my boss after all.

    SC: [suddenly dropping the pretense of a joke] You're just no help at all! I'm trying to give you money here and you're refusing to take it!

    [Peeve of mine. "Buying things from us" is not the same thing is "giving us money." The first is a business exchange which is mutually agreed upon by two parties. Referring to it as "giving" us money implies that buying something from us is a selfless act of charity for which they get nothing in return. I don't know why it bugs me, but it does. Probably because the same people who refer to buying things as "giving us money" often have a super-entitled attitude.]

    Eugene: I'm sorry you feel that way. Would you like to cancel the order, change the order, or leave it pending as it is?

    She chose to leave it pending as it is but she acted very put-upon about it.

    The End Is In Sight

    Yesterday we finally heard back from BIGCompany. We still can't ship Product2 until we've worked out the details of the renewed contract, but at least we can tell people that it looks good to be shipping it soon.
    The best karma is letting a jerk bash himself senseless on the wall of your polite indifference.

    The stupid is strong with this one.

  • #2
    Anyone else get the feeling that BIGCompany did this(not returning calls, etc.) as a negotiating ploy so the product would be so in demand that you'd go for almost any terms they ask?
    "All I've ever learned from love was how to shoot somebody who out-drew ya"

    Comment


    • #3
      Actually we believe it was more that our business just isn't important enough to be a priority.

      And I'm saying that without any real bitterness at all. It's just a fact.

      They have to do work receiving and filing our royalty reports, not to mention renewing the contract whenever it expires. They are big enough that we know the royalties won't make or break them. So it's effort on their part for little benefit to them.

      And it's not their job or worry to make things easier for us. It would be nice if they did, but they don't. That's just how it is.

      We're perfectly willing to pay them somewhat more and dispense with the reports, which are also extra work for us as well. And we've also proposed that the contract be renewed automatically unless or until either party bows out. Our contact person at BIGCompany (who's not a bad sort besides being really bad about returning calls), was perfectly willing to do either to avoid the extra work.

      But both ideas were nixed by their corporate lawyers. Not much he can do about that and keep his job.

      So it's more of a bloody bureaucratic nightmare with a company who just isn't motivated, than any effort to squeeze money from us.
      Last edited by Dips; 05-04-2010, 02:45 PM.
      The best karma is letting a jerk bash himself senseless on the wall of your polite indifference.

      The stupid is strong with this one.

      Comment


      • #4
        Ugh, Conspiracy Theorists.... can't win with them.

        Product available? Conspiracy to "hook" customers into dependancy on product and then threaten to discontinue it to drive up the price!

        Product not available? Conspiracy to create artificial shortage and drive up price!

        Boy, where can I join this vast conspiracy that apparently eveyrone but you and I have joined? Because I assure you, I've missed all the meetings too.
        - They say nothing good happens at 2AM, they're right, I happen at 2AM.

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        • #5
          Actually my research group is fairly sure that they're going to be forced to change programmes because the one they've been using has been bought out by the competition. HOWEVER this is largely because the headaches in renewing the licence are getting worse and worse every year, and the company is caring less and less about people who use this product as opposed to the more expensive one. I believe the research group is looking at open source next. (Not because they care about the money, but because being forced to switch software means that you lose all the previous simulations).

          Maybe it's because I grew up with a programmer, but I don't see what's so difficult to understand about "we don't have a licence to sell you all the parts at the moment".

          Comment


          • #6
            Quoth Magpie View Post
            Maybe it's because I grew up with a programmer, but I don't see what's so difficult to understand about "we don't have a licence to sell you all the parts at the moment".
            I don't know. "I can't sell something that I don't have permissions for" sounds pretty clear to me. But these people are the sort who demand that workers pull shopping carts/flowers/artwork out of the ether, so.......
            1129. I will refrain from casting Dimension Jump and Magnificent Mansion on every police box we pass.
            -----
            http://orchidcolors.livejournal.com (A blog about everything and nothing)

            Comment


            • #7
              Quoth RootedPhoenix View Post
              I don't know. "I can't sell something that I don't have permissions for" sounds pretty clear to me. But these people are the sort who demand that workers pull shopping carts/flowers/artwork out of the ether, so.......
              And apparently want you to risk your job, too.
              Dull women have immaculate homes.

              Comment


              • #8
                What is it with people? They come into stores and expect the staff to be Magical Mister Mistophelees.
                Customers should always be served . . . to the nearest great white.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Quoth Exaspera View Post
                  And apparently want you to risk your job, too.
                  Not only that, but they want to get you fired over even the most stupidly trivial things.

                  I had one person who actually wrote a letter to the CEO of the company I work for in an attempt to get me fired.

                  Why?

                  Because we ran out of one particular type of FREE stickers that we occasionally send out to customer.

                  The sticker cost maybe a penny, tops, and it sent out complimentary. The customer just didn't like the pattern on the sticker that was in stock.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Update

                    BigCompany has been discussing the matter with us but they wanted more money and still expected us to file royalty reports.

                    I can't go into details but it's not worth it. So we're going rework Product2 to take BigCompany's licensed component out of it. It's going to affect how Product2 works for some people but there are workarounds that may make that moot. Eventually demand for Product2, which won't run on 64-bit systems, is going to die out anyway.

                    In the meantime we're not selling new licenses for Product2 at all. We put a public notice on our web site and removed Product2 from it and our price list. We've personally notifed a few key people in the industry because it's better coming from us than from the rumor mill and we'll have to contact the people who have backorders for Product2 to see how they want to proceed.
                    The best karma is letting a jerk bash himself senseless on the wall of your polite indifference.

                    The stupid is strong with this one.

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