You're in third year!

[Magpie]

Ok, I've had a lot of students coming in who have never had a low mark before. Telling me "I've never had a mark this low" will get you my spiel about how counselling services offers exam skills workshops, and maybe you should sign up for next term. It has no bearing on how I mark your exam. At least... it oughtn't. I suspect it makes me less likely to add marks. (Just FTR, when I did get my first failing exam I went "oh, hey, I'm really in university now, it's just like everyone said").

Someone managed to sum up the suck "Oh, I could see where I lost marks, I just wanted to see if I could get some of them back." Dude, you don't come to the TA to get more marks. You come to the TA to say "hey, I think you mismarked this". You come to the TA to say "You made an addition error in my exam". I'm getting better at this - odds are you WILL lose marks if I you request that I remark the exam without cause.

Next course I'm petitioning the prof to do the "write a note and give it to us if you want a question remarked" route. I keep falling for these scam artists, and did give marks that I oughtn't.

[Shalom]

Our professors in pharmacy school actually invited challenges to their grading, to the extent that they had challenge forms printed up and distributed after the exams. If you could make your case that the question was ambiguous or misleading, or justify your answer as correct, with appropriate documentation, you just might get credit for that question. I challenged a few; never won one that I recall, but once in a blue moon someone did come up with an alternative answer that the professors had to accept.

(The reason for this was that the state board exam also allowed challenges on grounds of ambiguity, so they wanted us to have some practice doing it.)

edit: I got my first C in second year, when I took Organic 1. I discovered very early on that in that class, unlike the stuff I'd taken in first year, if you didn't do the "optional" homework exercises and the "optional" review meetings with the TAs, you were sunk. It was the hardest course I'd done up to that point, and a C in Orgo 1 is nothing I feel I should be ashamed of.

[chainedbarista]

i can see getting the marks back if they have an argument that is valid and supportable, but today, that equates to 'it's not fair! i was hungover/sleeping/taking to friends and couldn't finish it/follow directions.'

[Kirkygirl]

edit: I got my first C in second year, when I took Organic 1. I discovered very early on that in that class, unlike the stuff I'd taken in first year, if you didn't do the "optional" homework exercises and the "optional" review meetings with the TAs, you were sunk. It was the hardest course I'd done up to that point, and a C in Orgo 1 is nothing I feel I should be ashamed of.

Organic Chem is hard, especially if you're like me and don't really like the math so much. But there is truth to the whole homework thing. You don't do the homework? Too bad, so sad. Same with the manual practice both in and out of class. "If you want to really know the material, go practice it. Ask us for help and come to us if you need any clairification."
I'm really happy I learned that at college as versus university, where things would have been a LOT more expensive. Thankfully I don't really see a whole lot of entitlement whores here where I got to school as the application process weeds out a lot of the people who think this program is a breeze (27.5 month program for Massage Therapy, max 8 wks a year from school).
Even with all of the warnings and extra help instructors give, some people *cough cough* think it's okay and they'll pass the exam with flying colours.
Librarians are your friends, students. :P
Kirkygirl

[Sapphire Silk]

Nursing students are notorious for arguing test questions. It was one of my biggest headaches before I went to online testing, because the whole class would gang up on me (or try to . . . I used to work in a prison, so I've got a thick skin )

Then I went to online testing. Now the computer does the item analysis for me, and I can review questions to see if I wrote a bad question. After 5 years of teaching, I have a very large test bank of tried and true questions.

I now require students to schedule an appointment for individual test review. If students want to challenge a question, they must show me where in the iTunes podcasted lectures (lecture is online), or their textbook that there is a second answer. They are rarely able to do this; usually they take a quote out of context, and when I show it to them they are quite crestfallen.

I've never had a successful appeal of my exams.

My suggestion to Magpie . . . make the students SHOW you in their textbook where you are wrong; they must prove it to you, not the other way around.

[Amina516]

Nursing students are notorious for arguing test questions.

Muahahah. Thank you.

We were able to challenge questions after exams if we could prove they were wrong. But usually every post test review session began with "We threw out X questions b/c we realized they made no sense." I think they needed a new test question bank.

[Greenday]

Organic Chem is hard, especially if you're like me and don't really like the math so much. But there is truth to the whole homework thing.

Two things. 1.) Are you talking about Organic? There's no math outside of some lab stuff like calculating theoretical yields. 2.) You got homework? Wtf? I got three tests and a final. No homework in the majority of my chem classes. One bad test and BAM, there goes your grade.

I never straight out asked a teacher for more credit than I was given, unless I thought I had actually answered a question, if at least partly and didn't get credit. I'd say something if I got the question right but it was marked wrong. What I'd do if that wasn't the case was just go to the teacher, go over the test, and sometimes a teacher would give you a couple points because they realize you understand it better than you explained answers on the test.

[Magpie]

My suggestion to Magpie . . . make the students SHOW you in their textbook where you are wrong; they must prove it to you, not the other way around.

Nah, it's stuff like when they put down two equations that contradict each other, and want full marks for the fact that one of the equations is correct. (Yes, everyone else who wrote that equation down got 5 marks for doing so. No one else put down an equation which DIRECTLY CONTRADICTS it right before. It's an open book exam, we're picky about that). Or part marks for making a mistake - yes, I gave part marks to other people who did the same solution method as you. Except that the other people did a better job of using this solution method.

[panda]

People have the NERVE to ASK for more marks than they deserve?!!?
................
I.... Don't.... Understand....

Am I... being stupid? They think that by talking to the tutor and telling the tutor that they think the tutor is wrong, they will get MORE marks????

Hope they didn't pay for their education...

[Magpie]

They're probably paying for it. Back in my day (yes, I graduated just over a year ago), you could make enough in co-op to put yourself through, IF you had really good jobs, or a scholarship or free room and board (my husband's parents live in town). I even had a friend who was an international student (they pay the full fees, so something like 20-30k p/a) who was putting herself through from co-op. But she worked for Toyota.

There's fewer co-op jobs now, and they don't pay as insanely well. So they're probably having to top up, at least, from out-of-pocket. And my school is really young - not even 75 years old, which is new even for Canada. So we don't have a lot of bursaries. Even if you qualify for government student loans, you're not guaranteed a bursary. (It was even worse when my parents where here - back then they barely had any scholarships either, these days they have the standard "everyone with an entrance average over 80 gets an entrance scholarship", aka "first term's tuition is only half what you pay later".)

[PepperElf]

does the college allow retests?

just wondering.

i know for my navy classes, if you failed a test you got to take a retest but if you failed that you were held back one class to retake the material. if you failed a third time they considered sending you to another rating or out to the fleet undesignated (believe me you DO NOT want to go undesig).

I only double failed once, in the first half of my school (basic electronics portion) tho i was held back twice - once for the test and once for being sick too long (2 days in a row sick = held back one class).

[Greenday]

I've never experienced a class where you could take a test over. Either you passed that semester or you didn't for the class. If you didn't, you could retake the class another semester.

[Magpie]

As long as your course mark is over 35% you don't have to re-take the course - you just need to pass the final the next time that you're on campus in the same term as the course is being offered. (You're allowed to come and do so on your workterm if you wish). Is that what you meant by retests?

[hinakiba777]

In my university if you fail a course by only a few points. (Say you got 48%) You are allowed to challenge the grade. I'm not sure how many people do this, nor do I know the how the challenges are handled.

But I'm happy my school is too small for TAs (Student population is about 1300, so the average class size is between 4 and 20.) If you want to challenge a grade or something you have to discuss it with the professor directly. The upside being your professor knows you, the downside being they will directly confront you about missed work, etc.

I had one class when I kept having weird accidents right around the time an assignment was due. The night before my final paper was due i ended up accidentally cutting open my leg WHILE sitting at the computer finishing the paper. Then when I went to finish it a few days later, my computer crashed and I had to go to the computer lab and write the paper. I finished it 15 minutes before my extension was up. My prof never questioned the verity of my stories. At a point where even I didn't believe all the weird stuff that was preventing me from getting my work done, my prof would just tell me to get some rest and take a few days to get the work done.

I would NEVER go up to any of my Professors and challenge my grades. They are BEYOND fair to me.

[smileyeagle1021]

I've never had a successful appeal of my exams.

My suggestion to Magpie . . . make the students SHOW you in their textbook where you are wrong; they must prove it to you, not the other way around.

You would hate one of my friends who is a med student. He challenged a test question, the professor told him to show him where in the book it supported his answer... he came back the next day with a newly released peer reviewed study that proved that the book was wrong and that his answer was now the correct answer

And my school is really young - not even 75 years old, which is new even for Canada.

As compared to my university which is only 2 years old... granted it was also a state college before for 50 years... but still (though, it still has the same accredidation as USU and UofU, yet costs half as much as either of those).