SOARing with turkeys . . . (Long)

[Sapphire Silk]

Not too often I post in this part of the site . . . .

<sigh>

Today I had to work SOAR (Student Orientation, Advising, and Registration) at the community college where I teach.

SOAR is only for new students. They sit through an information session on the college, then break up to specific registration areas based on their declared majors. My job is to help them register for classes. After this, they can register on the Web or in the "Pit" (a big computer lab staffed with faculty where anyone can register for classes).

Open Registration has been going on since November, so getting classes for the students can be a bit of a challenge. Worse, most come in with NO plan at all for what to do or how to do it. Some highlights:

A pre-nursing student comes in to register for her pre-reqs.

PNS (Pre Nursing Student): I need to register for classes. I'm in the 2012 Evening class for nursing.
Me: *This is impossible. The application deadline is still open for the Fall 2011 class, not to mention the Spring 2012 class* Have you picked up an Application packet from the Admissions Office? *note: the admission process to my program is very involved*
PNS: No. I'm already in the 2012 class. I just need to start taking my other classes before the 2012 class starts.
Me: I'm sorry, but that doesn't make any sense. The application deadline for that class is way off, and there is a ranking process. Letters have not been sent out for that class yet.
PNS: The lady told me I would be in the 2012 class, and sent me up here to register for my other classes.
Me: I don't know what she told you, but the application process for that class is not complete. It is also very competitive. You have to be ranked. Have you taken the TEAS (nursing admissions exam)?
PNS: No
Me: You will need to, and you will need to get a specific score or you will not even be ranked. I can register you for the pre-reqs today, but you need to go to the Admissions Office and get the application packet. It will spell out exactly what you need to do.
PNS: *cue catbutt face*

So I go to get her registered. The computer tells me, "Pre-requisites have not been started." I go through this every semester. Last minute applicants for the upcoming term who have not gotten their transcripts or their placement tests processed so I can know what classes I can register them for. PNS shows me her transcripts from several previous schools she'd attended. Although she has a lot of courses credited, only one completes a required course for our program: Freshman English. I can't register her for anything without credit for that one course. So I send her off to a faculty member with override authority (since she did think to bring her unofficial transcripts)

Another student comes in to register.

S: I'm here to register for Dental Hygiene.
Me: Have you applied for the Dental Hygiene program?
S: Applied? I want to take Dental Hygiene.
Me: It is a limited enrollment program. You have to apply for it. Have you applied at the Admissions Office.
S: No. So I can't take any classes?
Me: Sure you can. We can get your pre-requisites started. Do you have your placement scores? *She hands them over*
Me: This is good. You don't need any developmental ed. I can register you for any of the pre-reqs.
S: What about Dental?
Me: I can't register you for a Dental course until you are accepted into the program. I can register you for any other course you like.
S: OK

So I start trying to register her for classes. There are open sections in every course she needs, except A&P (those courses close quick)

Me: I can register you for an English course. *I start listing off the available courses. The student chooses a Saturday section* OK, let's look at something else. *I look at another of her required courses*
S: What about a Dental course?
Me: You can't take a Dental course yet. You have not been accepted to the program yet.
S: So I can't take a Dental course?
Me: No, not until you apply and are accepted.
S: I need a Friday or Saturday class.
Me: *looks through every section of every required course in her program* I'm sorry. There aren't a lot of options for Fridays or Saturdays. Most students attend Monday through Friday. None of the courses you need has a Friday or Saturday class.
S: But I need a Friday or Saturday class. I have a three year old.
Me: I'm sorry, there aren't any.
S: So, can you find a Friday or Saturday class?

Lather, rinse, repeat.

Finally, I send her to pay. In the 2 hours I did registration, I registered this one student for ONE course.

Another student comes in, sits on a chair, and promptly slides off and falls on the floor. She wasn't hurt, thank the gods.

S2 (student 2): I'm here to register for Dental Assisting.
Me: Have you applied to the Dental Assisting program?
S2: No.
Me: You will need to go to the Admissions Office and apply. But we can register you for your prerequisites.
S2: OK

I attempt to open her file in the computer. "This student may not register. See the Registrar."

Me: I'm sorry. The system won't let me in. You need to go to the Registration Office and find out why there is a hold on your file.

Student leaves, and comes back a few minutes later.
S2: The lady downstairs was able to bring me up. She says the hold is off.

So I try to open the system. Same message
Me: Still not working. It says you must see the Registrat
S2: But the lady downstairs said everything was fine!
Me: The system won't let me in. *She can see my screen . . . she can see this for her self* You need to see the Registrar.

Lather, rinse, repeat. We go through this several times before we finally find someone who can override the system.

I hate Registration.

And it is going to get worse. In January, I have to do Open Registration for the students registering at the last bleeping minute, when NOTHING is open.

[Kristev]

Oh my word. And these people want to be trained in medicine?

[Mongo Skruddgemire]

Oh my word. And these people want to be trained in medicine?

I work in a hospital.

These @#$%ers scare me. When I get injured, just treat me like a horse with a broken leg and shoot my ass.

It would be less painful.

[chainedbarista]

S: What about a Dental course?
Me: You can't take a Dental course yet. You have not been accepted to the program yet.
S: So I can't take a Dental course?

dear diety, please don't EVER let this one anywhere near my mouth, or any other part of my body.

wow, how can they not understand the concept of pre-reqs and applying for their chosen programs?

sorry, i forgot; they're a special type of sc.

[Eisa]

I'm so sorry. This is why I will never, ever help with freshman registration. Granted, the older students can be idiots, too. But...WOW.

*is glad her major isn't limited enrollment*

[Sapphire Silk]

I know. It's really scary.

Fortunately, these are the people who usually don't do well in the science pre-reqs. These are HARD courses, and the professors make them that way on purpose because they know most of their students are going into health professions and they don't want the goobers getting in.

Take A&P, for example. We get a lot of complaints from SC students (and their mothers) about registering for A&P. Even though they've hired another instructor and added sections, the competition to get in is so stiff that students trying to register for these courses for the third time must get written approval from the Biology Department Chair . . . and he never gives it until the last week before classes start.

My CW J had an encounter with one such sucky student a few weeks ago. He was in the practical nursing program (and not doing well), but he had to have the A&P course before he could move on in the nursing program. But he'd taken it twice and been unsuccessful, so the Bio Chair wouldn't let him register. This student actually brought his MOTHER to the school with him, and argued with every administrative official on campus who all told them the same thing: The Bio Chair set a policy, the campus supports it, and they must go through the BC.

Then they go back to J and BMG at her over something she has no control over.

Sheesh!

The Dental program's chair is a tough SOB who has no time for SCish behavior. I wish MY department chair was that tough. He kicked out three students for copying each other's homework. Homework . . . not an exam.

[lwb]

Panacea, I feel your pain. 4 times a year, late registration for each quarter. My favorite are the ones that "need" classes only on Monday and Wednesday between 2:37 and 7:22, need to be full time (at least 3 classes) and need classes like Biology. Biology which I watched fill up every section across every campus in 37 minutes one quarter.

[sirwired]

I much-preferred the way my school did registration. Instead of a campus-wide scrum on a select few days each semester, it was done gradually over the course of two weeks. The only lines you had to stand in were for ultra-limited enrollment classes like photography, where there are only a certain maximum number of students that can use the lab, period. And if your major required the class, you were guaranteed the slot.

Except for those few "pre-registration required" classes, all you had to do was pick your courses and get your advisor (or any faculty member anyway... they didn't really check or care) to sign your schedule sheet. You then dropped this by the Registrar's office before the deadline. You were virtually guaranteed that you would get to take every class you signed up for.

The Registrar and his staff would then hide in the back room for a couple of weeks and come up with the schedules (with the assistance of the computer, of course.) The catch? You could not sign up for individual sections; if the only way they can fit you in was by putting you in class 8AM every day of the week, and booking your Friday solid with classes finishing up with a 4-7PM lab, too bad. OTOH, none of the nightmare stories of people taking six years to graduate because they simply could not take classes required to graduate.

[AccountingDrone]

My secret the first time through was making sure i got the early morningest classes I could get. Nobody likes early morning classes except me =)

[HEBlues]

I work in advising as well, and I teach part-time. In both cases I see the typical CS behavior of "my friend told me so it must be right." I only work/teach in that area, but yeah, your friend is right and I'm wrong.

Case in point: I had a lady who wanted to take a higher level chemistry class but had not taken any pre-reqs. She said that because she didn't want to get a degree, she could take any class that she wanted. Uh, no, it doesn't work that way. She kept smiling in a very condescending way and saying, "I know I can. I know other people who did. It's funny you don't know that." Right. I only do this job every day and have done it for over 5 years. But I must be wrong because it wasn't the answer she wanted.

[PepperElf]

Oh my word. And these people want to be trained in medicine?

ROFL.

perhaps that's why these registration processes are so "complex". to weed people out

or so we can hope...

[Shalom]

Case in point: I had a lady who wanted to take a higher level chemistry class but had not taken any pre-reqs. She said that because she didn't want to get a degree, she could take any class that she wanted. Uh, no, it doesn't work that way. She kept smiling in a very condescending way and saying, "I know I can. I know other people who did. It's funny you don't know that." Right. I only do this job every day and have done it for over 5 years. But I must be wrong because it wasn't the answer she wanted.

It does happen sometime. Helps not to have an attitude, though. Behaving like that wanna-be student did is not likely to increase the staff's desire to be helpful.

I actually did something like this twice. In the college where I first attended, Biochemistry (Chem 57) had a pre-req of Quantitative Analysis (Chem 41). However, they only gave Biochem in the fall and Analytical in the spring; if you go in the order they want you to, it can take an extra year. Normally this isn't a problem because you take Analytical in third year and Biochem in fourth, but I wasn't going to have a fourth year because I was transferring out to pharmacy school. I explained this to the Chemistry department, and they happily waived the pre-req so I could get in.

That's at least reasonable. More to the point, though, I also did something that the student in your story only wanted to do: managed to take an advanced course with none of the pre-requisites. Of course they won't let me keep the credit, in the unlikely event I ever go back to that college and try to graduate, but I learned quite a bit (and got an A to boot).

Story was, I wanted to take Photography 1. This was given through the art department, but they wanted three pre-reqs: Drawing & Design 1 and 2, and Art History, none of which I had (or wanted, or needed). I asked them to waive the pre-reqs, and they refused. I asked them if they would let me take the class as a visiting grad student (they also catalogued this course in the graduate catalog, in which there were no pre-reqs... I had to take Biochem 2 that way, because they weren't offering it at the undergrad level that semester, and the Chem department advised me to sign up for it as such.) They refused. I asked them if I could take the course as part of my Chemistry major (photography is at least half chemistry after all). They refused.

I signed up for the course anyway. Figured if they noticed and threw me out, I wasn't any worse off. Paid the lab fee, attended the classes, took photographs all over campus (even talked Public Safety into letting me into the bell tower: got some impressive shots up there even if I was scared shitless. I don't like heights), worked in the lab and the darkroom, submitted my portfolio at the end, and was awarded an A. Seems I was the first student the professor had seen in ages who was there simply because he wanted to learn photography, rather than an art major who just needed another elective. If they'd waived those pre-reqs more often, they might have seen more students like me. I had a hell of a lot of fun in that class.

I was also the only student shooting medium (6x6cm) and large (4x5") format in addition to 35mm, which meant I always got an enlarger even though there were twice as many students as enlargers. There was one ancient Omega B2 in there that couldn't be used for 35mm without swapping out the condenser, and nobody else wanted to bother, so it was basically mine for the semester, because I always left it set up for LF when I was done with it even if I'd used it for 35mm.

(Admittedly there's an obvious difference between my situations and your wanna-be student's. In the first case, merely switching the order of two courses does not equate to not having any of them, and in the second, Photography is not a course wherein untrained students can kill themselves (and worse, other students) if they screw up in the lab. I can see them not wanting non-science-majors in Organic 2. Hell, I as a student wouldn't have wanted to see them there either. Some schools let you audit classes on a non-credit basis, but I can't imagine them letting your lady through the laboratory door even if she could audit the lectures. I also was not coming at them with an attitude like she was.)

Panacea: What's A&P stand for?

[trailerparkmedic]

Panacea: What's A&P stand for?

Anatomy and Physiology, I imagine.

I went through 4 community colleges when I took my pre-reqs for nursing. A&P and Microbiology were very tough courses at all of the colleges and required for most health profession students. Some people whined about the unfairness. The serious students studied hard and passed because they realized the importance of understanding the body. My first A&P professor was so good, I pulled out notes and diagrams from her class to help me in my Pathophysiology class this semester. It's a class about how diseases affect the body.

My last pre-req was an art elective. I talked to my professor before class a few times and she told me she was terrified of most of her "nursing" students becoming nurses. "I don't want some of them to be in the same BUILDING as me when I'm a patient." She was pretty relieved when I pointed out that community college trained nurses didn't need an art class. "Oh, so they're just the typical time wasters. That's good to hear."

[Sapphire Silk]

Panacea: What's A&P stand for?

Anatomy and Physiology. Anatomy is the structures of the body, Physiology is the processes by which they work. It's usually a two semester course. We offer the full 2 semester version (which RN nursing, dental hygeine, physical therapy assisting must take) and 1 semester versions which practical nursing, medical assisting, and dental assisting take.

Because we are a community college with an open enrollment philosophy, students who take (and flunk) A&P more than once can't be kept from trying again. But we can make them wait until people who are coming in the first and second time get first dibs, and we do.

But that doesn't stop the bitching from the SC students, or the excuses. I hear a lot of it at registration.

Some of these guys just don't get how important this course is. Even when they get to me in the nursing program, I get a lot of blank looks when I try to explain pathologies to them.

Take blood typing, for example. A&P students learn about blood typing. When they get to the nursing program, they have to understand why you can't mix blood types, and how even the tiniest incompatibility can lead to a blood transfusion reaction.

Every year, I ask questions on blood typing and transfusion reactions. Every year people get it wrong, and complain the question is unfair. The ones who paid attention in A&P get it right.

[MoonCat]

I'm starting to think that instead of taking that diploma on the wall in the doctor's office as a good sign, maybe I should ask how many times they had to take their medical courses before they were able to graduate.